The more ya know!

I saw a bit about the ol' YHVH thing...lot of crazy number stuff as well.

~Zoo

As a Karaite Messianic Jew I too find similar amusement.

I did not know that you are a Messianic Jew. Well imagine my suprise.

Sure thing.

The Apocalypse 20: 1-8----

1 And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, and having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. 2 And he seized the dragon the ancient serpent, who is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. 3 and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years were ended. After that, he must be loosed for a little while.

4 Then I saw seats; and seated on them were those to whom judgment was given; and the souls of them who were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and who had not adored the beast nor his image, nor received his mark on their foreheads or their hands. 5 The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection. 6 Blessed and holy is he who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and they shall reign with him a thousand years.

7 And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be loosed from his prison 8 and will come out to deceive the nations which are at the four corners of the earth, that is God and Magog, to gather them to battle; their number is like the sand of the sea.

In verses 1, God is showing St. John a vision. He sees an angel from Heaven with a key and a chain. We'll see later that God wants him to be a witness to these events for the purpose of relaying the info in what is now our Sacred Scripture. So from this we know he was given these specific words by Divine power.

One fact supporting a symbolic interpretation is that a thousand years is never used as a literal number in all Scripture. ...put that together with the highly symbolic book that Apocalypse is, and we can think ourselves on safe ground in assuming the thousand years are a symbolic time meaning a long period of time.

Apoc. 20:7 establishes the fact that Satan is bound during the entire thousand years. And I’ve already said that the “thousand years” the Millennium is now , the present age, also called “the Church age”

But you’re thinking what...if Satan is bound now, what about all the havoc and evil we often say he’s prowling around doing?

That’s where the symbolism of the chain and bottomless pit is understood.

The historic Catholic interpretation holds that Satan was bound at the Cross and there is sufficient Scriptural support for this. Apoc. 20:2-3 indicates that the devil is chained by the angel...Satan is bound but not entirely, completely 100%. He has some leadway....this is what the chain symbolizes...a curtailment of the devil's activity. He can roam from the bottomless pit only as far as his chain will allow him, like a pit bull chained to a post. He can still do damage within the scope of the freedom of his chain. So in this sense, Satan is still around prowling, but only as far as his chain (which God Governs) will allow. He is allowed to go only so far until he is fully loosed for a short time. Then he will mount a full-scale assault which causes a great apostasy. When he's loosed, he's going to give it his all to get as many Christian souls as he can. After this Christ will destroy him (Armageddon) and return in Final Judgment.

This is it in a nutshell. I can cover those parts I missed, and go into more detail on those I did cover if you wish.

Not many do.

For me though it is probably more proper for me to say a Jew who believes in the Messiah of the New Testament (aka Meshiach bin Yoseph or servant Messiah). I see him living, acting, and talking like a Jew (Torah observant vs Rabbinical here). I see Paul (although contrary to popular belief of Christians and Orthodox Jews) after his acceptance of Messiah in his accounts of Acts still keeping Torah. I support this as he is seen observing Passover and multiple accounts where he supports the Torah.

With that said:

I still live very much like a Jew (abiding to Torah as you know). I mention Karaite as I put more emphasis on Torah (and closer to literally) than I do the Talmud or Mishna (or any other writings for that matter).

Comment from Article:

[quote] Some years after the death of Jesus, Christianity was born [quote]

MM, Study Marcion, Ignatius, and Justin Martyr from multiple sources (newadvent.org the Catholic Encyclopedia) you may see a theme of anti-thesis of Torah. You might just find them interesting up until Constantine.

No need for further detail. Thank you for your time and input.

thank you for pointing me in a good direction, I will keep you updated via e-mail if I have questions is that ok?

No worries.

I hope you got a laugh about the joke earlier.

GROANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!!!!!!!! giggle!

Wow. That is so corny it's good.

~Zoo

it's a groaner, kinda like a henny youngman joke.. "take my wife! Please."

Well, that depends on the wife, doesn't it?   

hahahah I guess you haven't seen Lula and I talk about this one already? I also asked her the same question.



ditto on this as well.



Are you part of the Jews for Jesus as well or is that something completely different? If not, what do you think of their organization?



Yes, I figured that MM. I'm familiar with the biblical tribe of Levi as well. From what I understand the records had been lost for centuries just before the disbursement of the Jews, so nobody really knows exactly what tribe they come from, although I've heard sometimes the names (like Levi) give a clue as to what tribe they may have come from. So is there a way to know for sure or do you just go by your last name?

Other tribes are Simeon, Reuben, Judah, Gad, Joseph, Benjamin, etc and I don't see these names around as much as I do say...Levi.

I wonder also if tribes could be so intermarried over the years one may not know exactly what tribe they originally came from?



I don't believe this and you know it. How many times have I said...ALL of the bible is to be taken literally unless it's meant NOT to be? If it doesn't make sense...seek some other sense?

As in..... it's raining cats and dogs....is it really?

Adventure-Dude posts #87

AD,

Would you explain what you mean here by believing in Messiah of the NT as the servant Messiah?

The New Testament supports that Jesus the Christ as well as His followers did live, act and talk according to the ceremonies and rites of the Old Covenant but only up until His Death and Resurrection. Everything about the Old Covenant radically changed after that.

After His Resurrection and before He ascended into Heaven, He entrusted His followers with the mission and power to make disciples of all nations by baptizing and teaching them all His commands until the end of the world.


You say you see St.Paul as still keeping the Torah after his own conversion (Christian Baptism). Well, yes and no. We know from reading St.Paul's own writings that there was much confusion as far as the religious practice for the first Jewish Christians. They still had Temple sacrifices and yet from Acts, we read they held private praying of the Psalms and the liturgy of the breaking of the bread as they had been taught and commissioned by Christ at the Last Supper.

This confusion continued until the destruction of Jerusalem in 70AD, when the Hebrew religion of the OLd Covenant came to its final end.There was no more Levitical priesthood, sacrifices or Herod's Temple. From this moment on, the rabbinical rituals and laws of the Old COvenant were abolished and save no one.

We know St. Paul departed from keeping the Torah by his writings to the Hebrews and the Galatians. To those Jews who keep to the Old Law and its rituals, he warns, "for as many as are under the works of the law, are under a curse." Gal. 3:10. He further declares to the Hebrews, "there is an abrogation of the former commandment, becasue of the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law brought nothing to perfection." In saying a new, He (Christ) made the former old and that which decayeth and groweth old is near its end. The end came in 70AD, Daniel's 70th week.

After this to the Galatians 5:6, St.Paul said of circumcision, "In Jesus Christ, neither circumsicion availeth anything, nor uncircumcision: but faith that worketh by charity."

From what little I know {verbal accounts from Aunt and Uncles Father Mother The Jewishness comes from the Mother, you belong to your fathers tribe, that is why the wife use to move in with the husbands tribe.