No. What do you mean?

You mean, I don't kill and I don't commit adultery? Stuff like that? If so, it doesn't make a difference (in a way) because when you commit one infraction you break the whole thing. I was told once to look at the law as a whole. James speaks of this. Sort of like a window that has nine parts to it. When you break only one part of that window, it's still breaking the whole window as it has to be replaced as a whole.

So if you break on of the commands you break them all right?
As for Torah,Torah shows us our sin and guides us to overcome that sin through the Redeeming Mercy of the Son of the Almighty of Israel.

Passover is to be done in ones home not in syngogue or temple or church,this is torah command on Passover and you have no need for a rabbi to officiate the ceremony all you need to do is do the Passover in rememberance of the Passover in our past,present and future when we will also be passed over and not face the wrath of the Almighty.

Tabernacles is done in tents or booths,if you are disabled and unable to lay on the ground you can stay in a motel/hotel or r.v. camper etc. or just get a cot frame that can hold a air mattress.

So much wisdom and understanding given to us through His Torah and the messages He gave to the Prophets in regards of the mishandling of the Almighty's Torahand the Word given to us by the Very Word of the Almighty in regards of coming back to the torah,for through the torah,the prophets,Yahoshua,and the apostles we see how we are called to be a kingly nation of people who are obedient and loyal.
Pastor Terry

Well aren't the Commandments part of the Torah?

I'll ask again....what do you exactly mean? What exactly are you getting at?

I guess I should have put a 'just' in front of the? I'm not talking about just the 10 commandments, but Torah.



Have you ever read Torah and looked at how much you already observe in your current walk as a Christian?

KFC, let me give you this link. These are called the 613 commandments with their reference in Torah. I would be curious to know how many you already keep vs how many you don't.

WWW Link

You may now pick up your pencil

Thanks AD.....I put this into my faves and want to look later at this. I like stuff like this for reference I can use later on. I'll be soon teaching again here in my new area since God has already put in place for me those who want to learn and are looking for someone to teach them.

As far as how many I keep, I'm sure I keep quite a few of them, and I'm sure also you know this to be true...lol although not perfectly and not all the time. The spirit is willing, the flesh is weak.

Just perusing the site, I'd like to look at the scriptures attached to them when I have more time.

Also, keep in mind all these 618 would fall under the perfect 10. When we treat our God, our parents and neighbors as we should this all gets taken care of. The 618 would fall under the (even more condensed) two laws that Christ quoted, to love God with all our heart, soul and mind and love our neighbor as ourself.

If I were to condense all of scripture, both old and new, I'd use those two greatest commandments plus the question of "who do you say I AM?"

Well, I'm not sure if all 618 fall under the 10 as I'm not sure what the additional 5 you found are (the page shows 613). I'd have to know what the additional ones are.



Yes, I agree. Both found first in Deut. 6 and Lev 19:8.

Just checking to see if you took a look at that page KFC. I'm interested in your thoughts.

Well these were given to the Jews. Some I'd question. One in particular the one about a eunuch couldn't marry an Israelite woman? I think it was like #64. The text given was Deut 23:2.

From what I understand that had to do with bastards not entering to the congregation of the Lord up to the 10th generation. Not sure where the eunuch comes in unless the definition is not what I'm thinking it is? What is your understanding of it?

I did notice by looking at the end of Ruth that David who had this problem because he came from the line of Judah was the 10th generation in his line after Judah had relations with his daughter-in-law who tricked him. Remember Pharez?

So are you asking if I keep them? Probably some. Many wouldn't apply to me. I think the levitical laws show the heart of God, but also believe that Jesus took this all on when he went to the cross. Once under the law we are now under grace when he nailed the law to the tree he was crucified on. The law does show us sin and where the line is drawn tho. We wouldn't know sin if it wern't for the law. I also think we shouldn't frustrate the grace of God by dismissing what the law stood for. We should keep these things in mind as a reminder of where God's heart is for us.

Maybe when I have more time we can look at this deeper. It sure is interesting AD and I, am always interested in Jewish history and things like this.

More exactly to Israel.

I don't know of a single Torah scholar that would contend the idea that everyone that left Egypt were blood relatives of Jacob. It is often noted that there were many other Gentiles included amongst them. I think some of this is supported in the scroll of Yasher (Jasher).

What is it then KFC that we are grafted into (Romans 11)?

Well, of course many wouldn't apply to you. You are not male (as far as I know) and there is no temple. So there are many that don't apply.

Ah yes. Col 2:14

Don't you find it a bit remarkable that this is the MAIN verse that I hear regarding the OT being done away with? I do.

"Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us which was contrary to us and took it out of the way nailing it to his cross (Col 2:14, NKJV)."

If Jesus came to do away with the Torah then why in Jer 31:33-34 does Jeremiah say that he is going to write the TORAH on our hearts?

If Jesus came to do away with the Torah then why didn't HE himself clearly tell us?

Whether you realize it or not majority of Christians innocently follow the lie of Marcion (Against Marcion Book I). I don't blame the Christians because they just simply did not know.

I don't have my resources here with me at work to shed some light on this one. I'll work on this one this weekend. I'll see if my Chumash has anything on this.

First off I didn't quote that specifically AD. It's all thru the NT in various ways so I was just summarizing what the NT says about this subject....but yes you nailed it with this particular verse.



Fair question. This is the NEW covenant given to Israel. It's not the same as the Old covenant. It even says that right in v32.

The principal OT passage on the new covenant. It will be made in the future with the whole nation Israel (v31). It will be unlike the Mosaic covenant in that it will be unconditional (v32). Its provisions include a change of heart, fellowship with God and knowledge of the Lord and forgiveness of sins. All of this will fulfilled for Israel when the Lord returns (Rom 11:26-27).

The Mosaic covenant was a conditional covenant. But there are at least three unconditional covenants. The Abrahamic, the Davidic and the New.

I use this scripture quite often to those who think Israel is done away with as far as God's concerned.



The root of the tree AD is the Abrahamic covenant....not the Mosaic. This covenant promised blessing to both Jew and Gentile thru Christ.

Um yes you did.



Can you give another verse that specifically refers to what you said besides Col 2:14?



Do you see the Church as being apart or a part of Israel?



Which Abrahamic covenant are you referring to?

AD posts:

KFC POSTS:

Yes, this is my understanding as well.

Galatians 3:16-27 is helpful here.

The New Testament speaks of the end of the Old COvenant and the beginning of the New and Eternal Covenant in the Blood of Jesus Christ. St.Paul infallibly teaches that it is Christ who is the 'seed' of Abraham, and thus whoever is incorporated into Him--that is into His Mystical Body, the Chruch, by means of Baptism inherits the promise God made to Abraham and becomes a member of God's covenant people. It is only the community of the baptized in the Chruch that comprises the covenantal people descended from Abraham.

Read Gal. 3..."To Abraham were the promises made to his seed. He saith not: And to his seeds as of many. But as of one: And to thy seed, which is Christ. Now this I say; that the testament which was confirmed by God, the law which was made after 430 years, (ie the Mosaic covenant), doth not disannul, to make the promise of no effect. For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise. But God gave it to Abraham by promise."

So, the fulfillment of the promise God made to Abraham is seen in Christ, who is Abraham's seed, not in the law of Moses. For if salvation were by operation of the Mosaic Law then it would not have come from God's promise to Abraham. St.Paul explains in the rest of Galatians.

The purpose of the Mosaic was to teach to be a "pedagogue", and to punish transgression until Christ should come. The law could not of itself give life, but it did prepare the way for the fulfillment of the promise to Abraham and the giving of life (sanctifying grace) and faith with the coming of Christ. St.Paul concludes with

"But after the faith come, we are no longer under a pedagogue. For you are all children of God, by faith in Christ Jesus. For as many of you as have been baptized in Christ have put on Christ."

That is, since Christ we are no longer under the Mosaic Law the Pedagogue. For now faith has come and the baptized who have faith in Christ are the children of God and the heirs of the Abrahamic covenant perfected in Christ.

Some theologians claim that there are 2 separate groups of unbaptized Jewish children of God living alongside baptized Christians within the same covenant people...but this can't be.

This is how it all ties in with Romans 11: 20-23, 28.

And while the Jewish people remain "most dear to God for the sake of the fathers" that is, becasue of the patriarchs, especially Abraham and Moses, nevertheless, "becasue of unbelief they were broken off from the "olive tree", which is Christ. But, if they abidenot still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for God is able to graft them in again."

How is that? By conversion and baptism the Jews can be re-incorporated into the sole and exclusive covenant people of God, which is the Catholic Chruch, just as St.Paul himself was.

So, of the Jewish race, "there is a remnant saved according to the election of grace" 1:5, and that remnant consists of those Jews who repent, are baptized and become members of the Mystical Body of Christ, the Catholic Chruch.

no I didn't. Read comment #322 again. That's what I'm referring to. Maybe I did quote this verse to you way back (I probably did) but I wasn't necessarily thinking of Colossians when I gave that answer in #322. That's all I'm saying.

Lula brought up Galatians which is really all about this subject and would be a great book for this study. The Jewish Christians (Judiazers) were being told they did not have to keep the law as they were doing under the Old Covenant. They were trying to hang onto the Law in one hand and grace in the other.

I agree with most of what Lula says here with the exception of the role of her CC. It's not the CC faith but faith universal (Catholic) that we are all under the umbrella of..... going way back to Shem and Japeth and the promise made to them after the flood.



You will find it in Gen 12 where you will see 7 promises made to Abraham. You also will see the radifying of this covenant in Chap 15 with God passing ALONE between the pieces of the animals. God, whose presence was evident by the fire and smoke, swore fidelity to His promises and placed the obligation for their fullfillment on Himself alone.

What do you know about such ceremonies in Jewish History?