Jesus, Son of G-d or Satan's greatest trick?

Published on October 26, 2007 By Moderateman In Religion

So Satan sitting in his home listening to the screams of the tormented with a smile on his face, decided the Jews were to close to G-d, and this really angered him, he had to find a way to divide the damned Jews, after all G-d decided they were his chosen people and what better target for his evil deeds than watering down the religion, Now Satan had great power, let us not forget that after all he was arch Angel, most high, one of the three named Angels that sat at G-ds side at one time.

So along comes this good man Jesus was his name, he had many good things to say and the people listened, so first Satan hardened the hearts of the Rabbis, made them jealous of Jesus and his huge following, then Satan allowed some minor so called miracles to happen, an easy task for one as powerful as Lucifer. Satan also knew of the prophecy of the Messiah, and he thought what a great idea if he could trick the Jews into believing that Jesus was the Messiah, he could one, break up the tribes of Israel, really anger G-d whom Lucifer hated beyond all things and of course lead people away from the one true faith of Judaism. Needless to say his plan worked the people of Israel {some} believed the Messiah had come, the Rabbis who Lucifer had tricked into believing this good man was a threat to their power played their part perfectly and had the Romans crucify Jesus {all part of the prophecy} Some years after the death of Jesus, Christianity was born, Jesus NEVER claimed to be a Christian, he was circumcised in the Jewish religion and took Bar mitzvah at 13 again following the Jewish religion. Never once did he or his disciples call what Jesus was preaching Christianity, what he was preaching was Judaism in it purest form, with stress on the 10 commandments as a way to live your life. Did this really happen? I have no Idea, but it is no more believable or unbelievable than Jesus being the Human Son of G-d. Meanwhile we Jews of the one true faith are still waiting for the Messiah to arrive and on that day there will be much celebrating, for we have waiting patiently a very long time for this to happen.

Comments (Page 16)

226

jeremiah3131

on Nov 15, 2007

lula,

You not reading your bible out of fear that all you was taught was a lie?
I do not see anything in the Jerusalem Council giving Rome authority over the Assemblies,I do not see anything other then a set of guidelines for the new convert to start learning the Covenant,and besides who gave Man authority over the Most High and His Rules and Regulations,no one,for our High Priest is eternal and the last I looked the two witnessess of Covenant are still here,see catholic mithra worshippers fail tocomprehend when witnesses are called forth to witness something, that witness last as long as they are present,in this case the two witnesses are still around,Messiah even said if heaven and earth pass his Words will still endure for those Words are from the Almighty.

All I see is excuse after excuse justifying illigalism/lawlessness,you think if your still sold to sin you can achieve the Kingdom?
Pastor Terry

227

Adventure-Dude

on Nov 16, 2007

Two that come to mind first off is they DO pray for the Peace of Jerusalem and as far as I know they DO NOT celebrate Easter.

If so, then I stand corrected.

I agree wholeheartedly your recalling the background of Easter and I'm well aware of the connection with all false pagan activities that stem from Nimrod.

Ever wonder why you continue to celebrate resurrection day on Easter Sunday especially since Passover and Easter can be found in two separate months of our Gregorian Calendar (ever few years)?

You said the first day of the week starts at Sundown on Saturday right? So the first day of the week could start at say 6pm Saturday night and go until Sunday night at sundown...according to Jewish timing.

Now it says in Acts they met on the first day of the week (could fall anywhere between Saturday Night and Sunday Night)and continued to past Midnight. So this midnight could be Saturday Night at midnight or Sunday night at midnight right?

So that's according to Jewish timing. Roman time started at daybreak. So according to the Romans the day started at 6 am and went until the next day at 6 am. So either way this first day of the week looks like Sunday and could very well be Sunday night.

Since Luke was a Gentile and the writer of Acts, I'm assuming he meant first day of the week (Sunday) as we read in the gospels....after the last Sabbath the first day of the week brought the Resurrection and that it may have started after the workday.

You've received my thoughts on this so I see no need to belabor this issue.

But it's more than that AD..... It's also made quite clear what was asked of these new Gentile converts to adhear to and it was NOT the law.

KFC, yes I agree it is more than circumcision and the Torah. It is linking the two with salvation as is found in Verse 1.

To further expound on this subject let me offer this as food for thought. When a new person converts to Christianity do you tell them that they must keep all the commandments right away?

Do you give them a list and say okay now that you are a believer here is your list of what you should do such as (no particular order):

1. Pray daily.
2. Attend church at least 3 times a week.
3. Read bible daily.
4. Stop thinking negatively.
5. Stop doing drugs
etc...

The reason I mention this to take this into perspective with the Jerusalem Council's final response.

That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well. (Acts 15:29)

Why would they begin by telling them to stay away from meats offered to idols, blood, etc?

Here's my basis about this question. The first part addresses dietary concerns and the second addressing abhorrent behavior both of which are based in Torah. Here's where I'm seeing inconsistency in what you proposed. Even in Christianity you allow for some time of the conversion to change the person wholy. Meaning they start with certain areas in their lives and progress.

This leads me to ask:

If the Gentiles were not supposed to keep Torah then why would they be encouraged to do two things that are based from Torah?

228

Adventure-Dude

on Nov 16, 2007

Let's see if our discussion of the Jews keeping the Torah after they converted is cleared any by examining St.Paul's teaching to the Ephesians 2: 11-22.

Let's not get too far ahead. If I may request we take this one topic at a time. I appreciate you taking the time and writing about Ephesians 2. I'll be happy to respond once we finish with Acts 15.

229

Adventure-Dude

on Nov 16, 2007

Re: keeping the Torah, I'd say that KFC has succinctly summed it up. Beyond that, you may want to consider my reply #229 concerning St.Paul's teaching to the Ephesians.

I'm not quite ready to leave Acts 15 just yet. Once we finish up there I'll be happy to proceed to Ephesians.

230

Adventure-Dude

on Nov 16, 2007

Thankfully, my fall cleaning is just about complete and I'm getting into the Thanksgiving time groove.

Glad to hear that. Thank you Lula for taking the time to discuss with me.

231

jeremiah3131

on Nov 16, 2007

A.D. they really do not want to jump to Ephesians just yet anyway,for Paul enforces the torah and the covenant and how we who are outside can now come inside,most of the congregation just picks through this letter so they can justify sinfulness under guise of grace.
Pastor Terry

232

Adventure-Dude

on Nov 16, 2007

Well, that may be true Terry. However, I think it is important to finish this discussion on Acts 15 before moving to a next bit of scripture. I clearly see that Paul supports and upholds Torah based upon scripture and not the writings of Marcion nor Justin Martyr to back my thesis. I want to fully examine each topic before proceeding to the next to see if there is a common theme after Paul's conversion.

I still remain in the stance that Paul either supported Torah or supported Lawlessness which would make him a liar. If Paul is indeed a liar then we should eliminate his writings and teachings from the text. I realize that there is no way a Christian would deem Paul a writer as then their religion is 'replacement' theology because it contradicts Torah.

I'm only 28yrs old and know enough that I have a LOT to learn.

233

lulapilgrim

on Nov 16, 2007

Lula suggests:

Let's see if our discussion of the Jews keeping the Torah after they converted is cleared any by examining St.Paul's teaching to the Ephesians 2: 11-22.

AD posts:
Let's not get too far ahead. If I may request we take this one topic at a time. I appreciate you taking the time and writing about Ephesians 2. I'll be happy to respond once we finish with Acts 15.

OK,

I'll repost then:

AD POSTS:
Acts 15:1 - And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.

LULA POSTS:
The Council at Jerusalem clearly separates itself from the activities of the Judaizers for we know the final decision was taken by only "the apostles and the elders".

AD POSTS:
Lula, I don’t see the Jerusalem council separating themselves from Torah. It seems to me that they were separating themselves from the two gentlemen’s preaching in verse

The Judaizers had brought unrest and complication into the churches. Here, the question, dispute and dissension arose between the Jewish and Gentile Christian converts over the Gentile Christian's freedom from specific parts of the Old Law.

AD POSTS # 204:
Hopefully you can see the issue wasn't about Torah observance here but about refuting what the 'certain men' were preaching as commands that were given by the Jerusalem Council. Then enclosing a note of encouragement to begin moving towards Torah Observance as these are Kosher Laws being mentioned in Verse 29.

[quote]Let's see if our discussion of the Jews keeping the Torah after they converted is cleared any by examining St.Paul's teaching to the Ephesians 2: 11-22.

This is how I see the Council of Jerusalem's decision and the way it was applied:

Acts 15: 22-29 concern the Jerusalem Council's final decree incorporating St.Jame's suggestions. The Apostles and elders of the Church say in v. 28 that their decision is the decision of the Holy Spirit Himself. In summation, the decision was guided by God so we know it was the correct one.

It is the Apostles and the elders, with the whole Church, who designate the people who are to publish the Council's decree, but it is the Apostles and elders themselves, (the Hierarchy), which formulates and promulgates it. The text contains two parts--one dogmatic and moral (that's v. 28, guided by the Holy Spirit and forever more unchangeable),and the other is disciplinary v. 29. (which can be changed).

The dogmatic part speaks imposing no burden other than what is essential and therefore declares the pagan converts are free of the obligation of circumcision and of the Mosaic Laws, but are now subject to the Gospel's perennial moral teaching on matters to do with chastity. Again, this part is permanent Gospel and therfore permanent Catholic Chruch teaching becasue it has to do with a necessary part of God's salvific will it cannot change or be changed. Period.

The diciplinary part of the decree lays down rules of prudence which can change, which are temporary. It ask Christians of Gentile background to abstain, in charity (love) towards their brethren, Jewish Christians, from what has been sacrificed to idols, from blood and from meat of animals killed by strangulation. The effect of the decree means that the disciplinary rules contained in it, although they derive from Mosaic Law, no longer oblige by virtue of that Law, but rather by virtue of the authority of the Church given by Christ to His Apostles, which has decided to apply them for the time being.

What matters is not what Moses says but what Christ says through the Holy Spirit to His Church. St.John Chrysostom wrote: The Council seems to maintain the Law in force, because it selects various prescriptions from it, but in fact it suppresses it, because it does not accept all it prescriptions. It had often spoken about these points, it sought to respect the Law, and yet establish these as coming not from Moses, but from the Apostles through guidance of the Holy Spirit.

234

lulapilgrim

on Nov 16, 2007

To further expound on this subject let me offer this as food for thought. When a new person converts to Christianity do you tell them that they must keep all the commandments right away?

AD,

I just posted on the Ten Commandments and the Old and New COvenants on another thread that may be helpful in our discussion.

The OLd Covenant was sealed with the blood of victims; the New Covenant (Testament) with the Blood of God made man, (This is My Blood of the New Covenant").

The Old Covenant was made through Moses, the New Through Christ. The OC was made for only one nation, the New with all mankind. The OC was made to last for a limited time, the New will last until the end of time. In the Old Testament severe laws were made, but the power of observing them was not given.

The New Testament has not only its own holy laws, but abundant grace is given (through the Holy Eucharist and other Sacraments), by which to observe them. And the New COvenant is therefore called the Covenant of grace.

The Ten Commandments are an expression of the Natural or Moral Law, which God has written in every heart, and which every man can know if he listens to the voice of reason and conscience. That's why the Ten Commandments apply to all times and will until the end of time. And for this reason Almighty God wrote them on stone to signify that they were as durable as stone and are to last for all ages. We, Christians, (and yes, A, Catholics are the first Christians) ought to observe the Commandments more perfectly than was expected of the Israelites for our Lord has said, "Think not that I am come to destroy the law or the prophets, but to fulfill."

I've been studying the Decalogue and what they are to mean to us for only by our observance of them will we find happiness....by giving them God has shown us the road to Heaven.

The first three say to us: Thou shalt worship God, thou shalt honor and keep His name and thou shalt respect and keep holy His day.

The Fourth Commandment is a transition from one division to another. The next four protect our most valuable possessions, and forbid any injury to life (including the babe in the womb and old disabled people), innocence, property and honor. The last tow forbid evil desires, becasue they corrupt the heart and lead to evil deeds (sin).

Ask yourself which commandment you have most sinned against, and pray to the Holy SPirit for the gift of holy fear. "If thou will enter life, keep the commandments, says the LOrd. Deut. 5

The OLd and the New Covenant..one written in stone the same written upon our hearts...More on this is found in Hebrews 8 I believe.

235

SanChonino

on Nov 16, 2007

I can't believe this is still going on . . .

236

Adventure-Dude

on Nov 19, 2007

The OC was made to last for a limited time,

Lula, what about when you see a rainbow? Do you still see a promise to come?

The Ten Commandments are an expression of the Natural or Moral Law, which God has written in every heart, and which every man can know if he listens to the voice of reason and conscience.

Here's the verse Lula is referring to:

But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people. - Jeremiah 31:33.

Oddly though the Hebrew word for law here is "Torah" not Mitzvot which is the word for Commands.

That's why the Ten Commandments apply to all times and will until the end of time. And for this reason Almighty God wrote them on stone to signify that they were as durable as stone and are to last for all ages.

What about the 4th one Lula? The Catholic Church promotes Sunday which is a complete violation?

237

Adventure-Dude

on Nov 19, 2007

Acts 15: 22-29 concern the Jerusalem Council's final decree incorporating St.Jame's suggestions. The Apostles and elders of the Church say in v. 28 that their decision is the decision of the Holy Spirit Himself. In summation, the decision was guided by God so we know it was the correct one.

Agreed, they gave them two things to work on both from the Torah. As I mentioned before, the first one being Kosher and the second being from the Torah as well.

The Council seems to maintain the Law in force, because it selects various prescriptions from it, but in fact it suppresses it, because it does not accept all it prescriptions. It had often spoken about these points, it sought to respect the Law, and yet establish these as coming not from Moses, but from the Apostles through guidance of the Holy Spirit.

How can you respect the law and yet establish them as no longer important?

238

Adventure-Dude

on Nov 19, 2007

In summation, the decision was guided by God so we know it was the correct one.

Agreed, as they encouraged them to observe two aspects of Torah. To eat clean meat and to abstain from fornication. Both first found in Torah.

239

Moderateman

on Nov 19, 2007

(Citizen)SanChoninoNovember 16, 2007 17:17:50

I can't believe this is still going on . . .

me either, I might rename this article to "THE BLOG THAT WOULD NOT DIE!!"

240

jeremiah3131

on Nov 20, 2007

This post is ongoing because there are some here who are struggling with crossing over,see if we want the promises which are Israels we need to live by Israels rules as laid out in the Bible.

If we are to become of Abrahams family we have to learn to live by the family rules as laid out by the Redeemer of Israel and Judah,nothing about Rome being mentioned much less Greece having the promises.

So believe we can live as romans in the commonwealth of Israel and find out on that day what happens.
Pastor Terry

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