More people just need to be Frisbeetarians!

I think it is. The Hey at the end of "mitzvah" makes me think "mitzvah" is Hebrew.

Aramaic words for family members replaced the Hebrew ever since the first exile. Modern Hebrew's "father" and "mother" are also Aramaic.

אבא

abba = father

אמא

ima = mother

Leauki,

The short answer is to save my soul. The only instructions on how to love God and save our soul are found within Christianity which teaches we must worship God by Faith, Hope and Charity, that is, we must believe in Him, must hope in Him to the end and must love Him with our whole heart.

After Hebraic Judaism went down with the Temple in 70AD, God didn't leave us high and dry to fend for ourselves in this valley of tears of earthly life. He gave us His only begotten Son Who in turn gave us His new covenant, founded His religion, Christianity, and His Church which teaches these fundamental beliefs and the ability to practice acts of worship precisely in the way Christ commanded.

Catholicism implies a very certain faith or belief concerning the existence of a personal God, Divine providence and retribution, the immortality of the soul, free will and moral responsibility. These fundamental beliefs are supplemented and complemented by a larger knowledge of God and His purposes in regard to man through Divine Revelation. In Catholicism the things to be believed like Catholic dogmas which are specifis truths and the things to be done, (like the necessity of Baptism, of keeping from sin by obeying God's commands, of loving and forgiving one another, etc. etc. etc.) in order to obtain salvation, are guaranteed by Divine authority.    

Needing the Chruch's instructions on these is for the practical purpose of enlightening me on the whole range of religion and ethical duties  on the right fulfillment of which my supernatural perfection and eternal destiny depend.

[/quote]LEAUKI POSTS# 4

lEAUKI,

I find this very insightful and perfectly understandable. Probably becasue I can relate changing the Synagague for the Catholic Church. We love God and of course Jesus Christ as a community through our liturgical worship, prayer and praise at Holy Mass.  At Mass all Catholics, no matter the nationality of the person, are united in a body of the faithful. It's so great, people come in from all over the planet and we for that short period of time are family.

MM WRITES:

ZOO POSTS :

MM, ZOO and THINKALOUD,

Well said.

Our highest activity is love and there is no nobler object of our love than Almighty God. So this is the First and Greatest Commandment. Nothing is more important,

St.Augustine wrote, "Would that I had as many hearts as there are grains of sand in the depths of the seas to love Thee with, O God."

And this from Imitation of Christ, "Love alone maketh heavy burdens light and beareth in like balance things pleasant and unpleasant; It beareth a heavy burden and feeleth it not, and maketh bitter things to be savory and sweet....Nothing is sweeter than love, nothing higher, nothing stronger, nothing larger, nothing more joyful, nothing fuller, nor anything better in Heaven or on Earth; for love descendeth from God and may not rest finally in anything lower than God."

So many today expect God to tolerate from them contempt, insubordination, disobedience and neglect, such as they would never tolerate from their own children. Malachais 1:6, "If then I be a Father, where is My honor? And if I be a Master, where is My fear?"

As I see it, failure to love God can only result in tragedy for the individual either in this world or the next.

Leauki so you're saying, Joshua, one of only two original Hebrews who were allowed to enter the Promised land because they were obedient to the one true God, now stooped to worship an angel? 

Also, notice how this stranger answered Joshua's question.  He answered it from a Godly POV. 

Read the whole context, there's plenty of information to build on.  Read it in Hebrew if you wish.  It's there. 

He didn't worship an angel, he bowed to a messenger of the Lord.

Yes, that's what angels do.

The text says:

"Yehoshu3a el-pnio aretza vyashthachu vyeamar lo ma adoni medabar al-3avdo"

I have no idea what the word /sh /th/ /ch/ means, probably "worship". "Adoni" could be "adonai". "Aretza" is hopefully "eretz" ("land") in the right case for "on the earth".

"Joshua to his face earth and worshipped and said to him what my lord speak to his servant."

Note that "worship" takes a direct object (what you worship) while "say" takes a direct object and an indirect object (what you say and to whom). The only object given is "lo" ("to him"). "Worship" doesn't have an object. Joshua simply worships, not worships someone.

The English translation might have led to your confusion. English doesn't have a Dative case (noun case for indirect objects) and instead uses prepositions (although most people now drop them).

"He accused and said to me."

In English this can mean two things:

"He (accused and said to) me." == "He accused me and said to me."

And:

"He accused and said (to me)." == "He accussed (someone) and said to me."

"Accuse" like "worship" takes a direct object. "Say" takes a direct and an indirect object.

In German, which has two separate noun cases, the same sentence would be:

"Er klagte an und sagte mir."

Note the "mir" which translates to English "to me".

In German it's obvious that he did not accuse the same person that he spoke to. The form of "me" for "accuse" and "worship" would be "mich", not "mir". In English it's "me" and "to me", in German it's "mich" and "mir".

And Hebrew is like German in that respect.

"Worship" stands without an object and "say" has an object ("to him"). But the "him" cannot be the object of "worship" because it would be in the wrong case. Instead of "lo" (indirect object "to him") "worship" would take "oto" (direct object "him").

The Luther translation puts it this way:

"Da fiel Josua auf sein Angesicht zur Erde nieder, betete an und sprach zu ihm: Was sagt mein Herr seinem Knecht?"

"Betete an" is "worshipped" and it has no object (the object would come between "betete" and "an").

In short:

1. The object is "lo" ("to him") and it is the object of "say" not of "worship".

2. Luther's German translation clearly does not show an object for "worship".

3. The English language doesn't make the distinction between object types in the way that Hebrew and German do.

I consider God is One and that there are many paths to Him. It is clear to me that some of those paths are less direct, but we should not make judgements about this.  God set it up this way. Maybe a circuitous path is necessary for some.  Maybe some need idols, crosses, and statues.  Many some need the pragmatic "what works" path, while others see in a way that does not separate object from subject, aim from target. We human beings are in no position to discern the inequality of God's religious pathways. Best we leave that to Him.

Be well.

That is the best statement I have heard in this article,. "best we leave it to HIM"

And me!

LW POSTS # 85

LW,

First, it's good to see you back from your hospital stay.

I wasn't putting words in your mouth or any one's for that matter....my comment was in response to KFC, #58, who was responding to Leauki # 52 something about praying towards Mecca 5 times per day.

LW POSTS:

We are in agreement that all religions aren't equal.

Interesting that you say all religions illuminate a path to God. While I disagree they all lead to the one true God, I think if one studies the history of religion they'll find religion is necessary to human nature and entirely natural....I'd say it's written on our heart. I think the practice of some form of religion is universal. Take the tribes of the most primitive people right up through today, they all practice religion...they believe in some Supreme Being superiour to them..Everywhere the Deity (God or gods) is worshipped with some form of regulated rites.

It boils down to without religion man cannot attain satisfaction of the highest aspirations of his nature. Our yearnings of the intellect, will and senses are only satisfied by religion...that man comes from God and must go to Him.

All religions aren't equal and don't lead to God.

Religion probably comes from the Latin word meaning "to bind". I think that religion is the natural (moral) and supernatural bond, a relationship that binds us to God. Everyone of us has the natural religion written on his heart--that is the power which prompts man to be good and to do good for the honor of the Supreme Good which is God Himself.

The Catholic Dictionary defines:  

"Religion in the widest sense is the union of man with God. Objectively, it consists in doctrines and precepts by which man seeks to bring aobut this union. Religion is true when its doctrines and precepts are either dictated by right reason or revealed by God. If the former, it is called natural religion. If the latter, supernatural religion. Religion is false if when claiming to be revealed it is unable to show a divine guarantee, or when its dogmas and practices sin against right reason and cnscience.

Subjectively, religion is the attitude of the man who rules his thoughts, words and actions according to right reason and revelation. In this latter sense, religion is a special virtue allied to justice becasue it prompts man to render to God what is due Him by strict right from His rational creatures. As such religion is a strict obligation incumbent on every man. It is also the means by which man is to work out his final destiny."


The Catholic religion centers on expression of our moral obligation to our fellow man, our family, the state and to society. These moral obligations rest upon knowing, loving and serving God.

MM POSTS # 48

The First Commandment of Almighty God is "I am the Lord thy God, who brought thee out of the land of Egypt, and out of the house of bondage. thou shalt not have strange gods before Me. Thou shalt not make to thyself a graven thing, nor the likeness of anything that is in Heaven above, or in the earth beneath, not of those things that are in the waters under the earth,. Thou shalt not adore them nor serve them." Exodus 20:2-5.

Catholics believe the First Commandment commands us to worship or adore the one true and living God alone, by Faith, Hope and Charity and by practice of true religion. The chief sins against God are the worship of false gods or idols and the giving to any creature that worship, love or adoration which belongs to God alone.

MM,

Absolutely, it is right to warn people against the sin of idolatry when they are committing it.

Calling us Catholics idolators for having crucifixes and statues in the Church is based on ignorance of what the Bible says about the purpose and uses, both good and bad, of statues.  Catholics DON'T WORSHIP THE CRUCIFIX OR STATUES...PERIOD! THIS IS A RIDICULOUS CLAIM. I have 3 crucifixes in my home, a statue of the Blessed Virgin Mother on my kitchen window sill, and 5 paintings of the Last Supper! I don't worship them when I look at them...their presence reminds me to pray (sometimes for you!)

God forbade the worship of statues, not the religious use of them. Instead He actually commanded their use in religious contaxts. Have you read Exodus 25:18-20 where the Lord God commands the making of statues? David gave Solomon the plan for the Temple which was "by the writing of the hand of the Lord concerning it, included statues of angels. 1Chr. 28:18-19. Ezekiel 41:17-18 describes graven (carved) images in the idealized temple he was shown in a vision.

Read Numbers 21:8-9, and you'll see that during the plague of serpents sent to punish the Israelites during Exodus, Moses made a bronze serpent and set it on a pole...if a serpent bit any one, he would look at the bronze serpent and live. Yes siree, they had to look at the bronze statue of a serpent to live!!! which shows that statues could be used ritually, not merely as religious decorations.

Hopefuly over the next few weeks, you'll see many nativity scenes with statues of the Christ-child, His mother and Joseph, the shepherds, 3 Wise Men, etc. These are devices used to recall the person or thing depicted....and not idolatry in any way, shape or form.  It helps to remember them just as a photo of your wife does on your dresser or office desk.

He is quite a card, the Lord, isn't he?

It seems to me that this Catholic Dictionary supports what I was saying.

Faith is the only way to Salvation.

How that relationship looks depends upon man's view/interpretation of 'religion.'