I am NOT Religious, I just Love G-D

on Dec 16, 2008

Indeed. And if he comes back and does the things the Messiah is supposed to do, he might still qualify.

Yes and for the Jews this is when that quote in Zechariah will really mean something. I hope your eyes are opened before that tho (only God can do this) because it's going to get very bad before this day happens.

"And I will pour out on the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem a spirit of grace and supplication. They will look on me the one they have pierced and they will mourn for him as one mourns for an only child and grieve bitterly for him as one grieves for a first born son. On that day the weeping in Jerusalem will be great like the weeping of Hadad Rimmon in the plain of Megiddo. ......on that day a fountain will be opened to the house of David and the inhabitants of Jerusalem to cleanse them from sin and impurity." ..........12:10-13:1

From this follows that, if it is true, he will return and rebuild the Temple, as that is what was prophecied.

Well according to the scriptures it looks like the Temple will be built somewhere before the Anti-Christ comes on the scene. He could be behind it...not sure who gets it going tho but those who study the scriptures have been expecting this to happen next. After that, the AC will sit on the Throne in the Temple and declare himself God. Soon after that comes the Day of the Lord which is spoken of by the OT Prophets and is mentioned many many times. When Jesus comes back, the earth will be in a shambles. After the Millenium (which is after horrible The Day of the Lord) a new heaven and a new earth will be ushered in and that's when the real temple will be brought in. From what I understand the earthly temples were only a model of the real deal in Heaven anyhow. The template is the original and will come down from heaven at the very end never to be destroyed.

Also, if there is Scripture, could you cite the texts where God's law prohibits rebuilding the Temple?

Ask a rabbi. I don't know these things. The Israeli Chief Rabbinate says so and that is good enough for me.

Good question Lula. I was going to ask this same question as well but already know it's not in the biblical texts.

There is nothing in scripture that prohibits the rebuilding of the Temple. Christ even in Matthew 24:15 predicts it will happen when he lays out the end of the world events when asked by his disciples. Daniel did as well. So if you just go by Daniel you'd see there will be a rebuilt Temple in the end times.

Never take any man's word as final answer Leauki. You need to search these things out yourself. Someday you will be held responsible and you will have no excuse. These teachers (some who are false and/or lazy) will be held even more accountable. But that doesn't let you completely off the hook.

It is best to study scripture, in my opinion, as a guide for living in this world. We should not study for getting a good seat in the next, but rather, for the sake of making this world a better world for all of life, including God.

For me Psalm 1 comes to mind. I've memorized that. "He (or she) shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water."

I like having texts pointed out to me so I know what to focus on. KFC does a good job when it comes to that.

Thanks Leauki. I always try to go to the source and the context to make things clear to me and others.

Will it help me understand G-d better? No.

it should.

AD,

I've been gone all day and haven't had time to get my thoughts together. I'd like to specifically address your Matthew 5:19 and Romans 11 but think I may do that separately on my blog. I've actually been mulling 5:19 in my head all day as I've been out and about. Got lots to say just on that. I'll label it so you'll understand it's for you. Leauki may be interested as well.

227

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Dec 16, 2008

This is simply not true. Many Jews became Hellenized, that is, they spoke Greek, read Greek, so the Greek translation of the Torah was popular, just as the English translation is used in English countries, the Spanish in Spanish countries, and the German in Germany. At the time, there was a real struggle to not become Hellenized. Ptolemy was a bit more tolerant than the Selucid empires and ordered the Torah translated into Greek. But in general Greek styles were either rewarded or Jewish celebrations and folkways followed with sentances of death, under Antiochus, for example. Josephus documents the pervasiveness of Greek influence. But not everyone thought this was a good thing. Jews were straying from the Torah. The Maccabees rose up in revolt. And they restored the Jewish monarchy, unfortunately with one of their own rather than through the house of David.

Very good Sodaiho.......goes really well with my last three blog entries surrounding Hanukkah.

For sure there were two diff factions going on in Jerusalem when the Maccabees rose up. As per usual, God was very watchful over his people. The fact that the Maccabees were victorious against the well organized Syrians under the madman Antiochus, is amazing. No different tho than the stories in those years leading up to Israel being declared a Nation in 1948. Just amazing.

There is a purpose, plan and program going on here that is just amazing. (Did I say that enough?)

228

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Dec 16, 2008

Temple will be rebuilt"? Does 2Thess.2 teach this very specific prediction of yours? I don't think so. As a matter of fact in the first part of that St.Paul warns the Thessalonians against such things.

He teaches 2 premonitory signs have to take place before our Lord's Second Coming (Parousia) to judge all nations...one, there's going to be a massive rebellion or apostasy of the faithful from God. Here, St. Paul is basically repeating what our Lord Jesus said in St.Matt. 24:12 . Just as false prophets came and lead people astray before the destruction of the Temple and of Jerusalem in 70AD, the same will happen and as a result of following or believing false teachers, people will no longer love and believe in God.

Two, the "man of lawlwssness", "the son of perdition" is revealed. This passage assumes the Church will be around when the man of lawlessness revealed.

You ask "Temple will be rebuilt?" Does 2 Thess teach this very specific prediction? My answer is yes.

You say you don't THINK so. Well.....then THINK......woman!

You only gave me a couple of verses in the beginning of the chapter and didn't go far enough Lula.

There are two signs and you do have these both right. Except for the fact that Paul wasn't talking about 70AD specifically. He was speaking about before Christ comes back. There will be a falling away and a man of perdition (AC) will be revealed. I agree.

But you didn't go far enough (didn't I say that already?) because you stopped too short. I'm specifically referring to:

"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshipped so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." V4

Now there is nothing in Jewish history, between when Paul penned these words and when the Temple was destroyed just a few years later that would point to any such event. So that means it has to be future. He's going to set himself up in a rebuilt Temple. Basically what we are going to see is a more successful Antiochus come back to life. This man will be a madman on the level of Antiochus "Theos" Epiphanes.

Like it or not Lula this is a real literal Temple. You can't spiritualize this away. A Temple will be rebuilt (probably soon) and this man of perdition will enter and sit in the Holy Place and all Hell will break loose, because this will be just about the time the Day of the Lord will commence.

Jesus mentions this same thing in Matt 24:15 and calls it the abomination of desolation. Remember what Jesus said....."spoken by Daniel the Prophet? Daniel also saw this future time. So there are three witnesses to this temple and that's good enough for me.

229

lulapilgrim

on Dec 16, 2008

KFC POSTS: 197

I believe there are specific plans for the Gentiles and specific plans for the Jews.

Since Christ's death on the Cross, there is only one saving Covenant in existence today. In St.Luke 22:20, Christ referred to the New Covenant when He said, "And likewise the cup after supper, saying, 'This cup which is poured out for you is the new covenant in My blood." From this the Church makes it clear that the Old Covenant was indeed replaced by the New Covenant. Under this covenant there is no distinction between Jews and Gentiles (non-Jews) or any one as we are all one in Christ.

The whole thrust of St.Paul's teachings in Romans 9-11 is that Jews can be saved if they will repent and accept Christ, the God of Abraham. Gal. 3:29. "And if you belong to Christ, then you are Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise."

God doesn't need the Jews or any one of us, but He created us becasue He loves us. God wants us to fully accept the teachings of His Divine Son and to save our souls by doing the things He taught which are preserved in His Mystical Body, the Church. So, the only plans the Jews should have is the same as the rest of us and that is to save their eternal souls and Christ Himself showed us the way to do that. To be saved, like St.Paul who was steeped in Judaism from his childhood, they need to resolutely leave modern Judaism behind and be baptized in the CC, the New Isreal.

230

lulapilgrim

on Dec 17, 2008

KFC POSTS: 240

You ask "Temple will be rebuilt?" Does 2 Thess teach this very specific prediction? My answer is yes.

You're exhibiting a radical sense of Sola Scriptura by predicting a literal rebuilding of the Jerusalem Temple out of these passages from 2Thess. 2, Daniel and St.Matt.. Your prediction shows you're reading the passage with a pre-set Rapturist or Christian Zionist agenda or both in mind. God isn't interested in physical nations, ie Israel, rather, He's interested in souls. The battle is over souls, not nations.

I say, uh, uh, no way does any part of St.Paul's 2 Thess. 2 teach a literal rebuilding of the Jerusalem Temple!

KFC POSTS :

You only gave me a couple of verses in the beginning of the chapter and didn't go far enough Lula.

There are two signs and you do have these both right. Except for the fact that Paul wasn't talking about 70AD specifically. He was speaking about before Christ comes back. There will be a falling away and a man of perdition (AC) will be revealed. I agree.

But you didn't go far enough (didn't I say that already?) because you stopped too short. I'm specifically referring to:

"He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshipped so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God." V4

Ha, I caught ya sleeping on the job, woman ....didn't you read the rest of my post 217 in which I addressed v. 4 specifically and blow away your theory?

Anyway, the DR version has it a little different, the son of perdition "Who opposeth, and is lifted up above all that is called God, or that is worshipped, so that he sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself as if he were God."

Here's a retake of my post #217

As to the details of the "man of lawlessness", "the son of perdition", we don't really know who or what these expressions indicate other than a forceful evil adversary of God actively deceiving many of God's people in the world. It could refer to a uniquely evil individual like that of the "antichrist" in St.John or could refer to all the forces of evil ( a system) that Satan uses to pursue his ends. St.Paul stresses that this "man of lawlessness", "the son of perdition" is so brazen that "he takes his seat in the temple of God". That is, he is going to proclaim himself/itself to be God and insist on divine worship. "By taking the seat in the Temple of God" means more that he's going to somehow subvert the worship of the true God and pervert it to his own worship.

Here's why St.Paul isn't talking about a literal rebuilding of the Temple.... let's go to the Greek word for temple, which is naos. St.Paul never once uses naos to designate the Temple of the Jews in Jerusalem (which is hieron 1Cor.9:13). When St.Paul uses naos, he's referring to New Covenant temples which could include either the Church or the individual Christian, both of which are New Covenant temples indwelt by the Holy SPirit. 1Cor. 3:16-17; 6:19; 2Cor. 6:16, and Eph. 2:21.

So, St.Paul, along with all the Christians, believed that Christ had predicted the the destruction of the Jerusalem Temple within their generation (St.Matt 24), but they never believed this destruction would leave the world without any Temple. The new temple was God's spiritual Temple, the Church, with Jesus Christ her Eternal Priest. St.Paul always used the word naos in the New Covenant context....He understood the New Testament Church as the new Temple...and according to their writings so did the Fathers of the Chruch.

These passages about the "man of lawlessness" (antichrist) and the details of his progress still remain a mystery. However, to believe St.Paul taught a future literal, physical rebuilding of the Jerusalem Temple is very poor proof text of Rapturist's beliefs.

KFC POSTS:

Now there is nothing in Jewish history, between when Paul penned these words and when the Temple was destroyed just a few years later that would point to any such event. So that means it has to be future. He's going to set himself up in a rebuilt Temple. Basically what we are going to see is a more successful Antiochus come back to life. This man will be a madman on the level of Antiochus "Theos" Epiphanes.

Like it or not Lula this is a real literal Temple. You can't spiritualize this away. A Temple will be rebuilt (probably soon) and this man of perdition will enter and sit in the Holy Place and all Hell will break loose, because this will be just about the time the Day of the Lord will commence.

Jesus mentions this same thing in Matt 24:15 and calls it the abomination of desolation. Remember what Jesus said....."spoken by Daniel the Prophet? Daniel also saw this future time. So there are three witnesses to this temple and that's good enough for me.

Ha, first you predict the passage means the literal rebuiliding of the Temple and now probably soon! Uh, uh we are not supposed to do that...no one knows when Christ will come again except God Himself. We must keep prayerful watch and persevere in the faith. No predictions!

We agree St.Paul is describing a future event of the final eschaton......that the "son of perdition" , the AC, is going to be seated in the Temple somehow getting worshipped as God. No doubt. But what we disagreee is the Temple itself...

You know very well the Bible has lots of meanings for use of the word Temple, but it's always to signify a place where God dwells. One....the ultimate Temple is our Lord Jesus Christ Himself.

Two....were 2 buildings that stood in Jerusalem. God dwelled in the Old Covenant Temple.....Three....when Jesus stood in the Temple courtyard, He used the different understandings of the word Temple...His own physical body, when He said Destroy this temple, and in 3 days I will raise it up, referring to His impending Crucifixation and Resurrection.

Four...according to 1Cor.6:19-20, our body is a temple of the Holy Spirit within us. that's why we are supposed to glorify God with our body. Catholics believe the greatest example of a human temple is the Blessed Virgin Mary as her body was physical home of God the Son for 9 months of pregnancy. Which reminds me there is a popular song by Kenny Rogers and Winona Judd about Mary...so beautiful....one question is Did Mary know that when she kissed her baby, she was kissing the face of God? Sorry, I digress.....

Five...Christ's Chruch is the Temple of God, made of physical members with God the Holy Spirit enlivening her. St.Paul taught this in Eph. 2:19-21, "You are.....members of the household of God, built upon the foundation of the Apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the Cornerstone, in whom the whole structure is joined together and grows into a holy temple in the Lord."

Six....the largest temple is the earth or the physical universe itself. (Sodaiho's gonna like this one!)

The Biblical use of the word Temple illustrates biblical history prophecies the future. The OT foretold the temple building would be destroyed and rebuilt. History confirms Jerusalem was destroyed and then rebuilt. Every temple must be destroyed and reborn. Our bodies are destroyed when we die and then will be resurrected. 2 Cor. 4:16. The Temple of Christ's body met death on the Cross and while the rebuilding of the Temple foreshadowed His resurrection, Christ's resurrection foreshadows the resurrection at the end of the world. The final temple to be destroyed at the end of the world is the earth and universe. As to the Chruch Temple, she too as the Bride of Christ will undergo this rebirth. The Catechism teaches the Chruch will enter the glory of the Kingdom only through this final Passover when she will follow her Lord in His Death and Resurrection.

231

Sodaiho

on Dec 17, 2008

Six....the largest temple is the earth or the physical universe itself. (Sodaiho's gonna like this one!)

And you would be right.

May you be a blessing in it, too.

232

Leauki

on Dec 17, 2008

Never take any man's word as final answer Leauki. You need to search these things out yourself.

Yes, and you know I usually do that.

But this case is complicated. (Noteagain that it is not the rebuilding of the Temple that is specifically forbidden, but entering the area.)

It has to do with ritual cleanliness and a red heifer and not knowing where exactly the Temple stood. Basically ritually unclean Jews are not allowed to enter the holies of holies. In the absence of certain conditions, all Jews are ritually unclean for that prupose. And without knowing where exactly the Temple stood, the rabbinate has decided that all the Temple Mount is forbidden.

Note that Jewish law does not apply to gentiles. Arabs, Armenians, and Circassians can enter the area.

233

Leauki

on Dec 17, 2008

The fact that the Maccabees were victorious against the well organized Syrians under the madman Antiochus, is amazing. No different tho than the stories in those years leading up to Israel being declared a Nation in 1948. Just amazing.

A (rare pro-Israel) German journalist put it this way:

"60 years ago the Jews were regarded as a race; now the world refuses to recognise them as a people."

And Amos Oz, an Israeli left-wing author, wrote:

"Out there, in the world, all the walls were covered with graffiti: Yids, go back to Palestine, so we came back to Palestine, and now the worldatlarge shouts at us: Yids, get out of Palestine."

But Israeli Ephraim Kisohon, my favourite author, put it most succinctly:

"So Sorry We Won"

234

lulapilgrim

on Dec 17, 2008

A Temple will be rebuilt (probably soon) and this man of perdition will enter and sit in the Holy Place and all Hell will break loose, because this will be just about the time the Day of the Lord will commence.

The Temple will be rebuilt in Washington DC, and the Black Messiah will sit in the holy place. Grab your towel, folks, the rapture is upon us!

Hmmmmmm.....LW, I hadn't thought of it this way...but you might be on to something here!

Taking this New World Order scenario further......in keeping with tribulation and persecution, if Obama passes the FOCA act, thousands upon thousands more babies will be slaughered on the altar of abortion, and if he passes broader "hate crime" and "hate speech" laws, any one who believe homosexuality is an abomination and homosexual "marriage" an absurdity will be persecuted bigtime and the Holy Bible would also be considered hate speech!

235

lulapilgrim

on Dec 17, 2008

KFC POSTS: #202

Lula,

I saw a program back awhile that showed how these graven images (or sacred in your view) were manufactured and packaged. It's a huge money making venture for the RCC. I believe that's alot to do with this. These graven images are for profit and the poor simple Catholics have bought into this. I believe you when you say you're not worshipping a statue but I do believe your RCC is manufacturing graven images to bow down to and pray to. It's all about money which as you know can be nothing more than an idol that can very well get between a person and God.

The RCC has always been about if you can't beat em, join em. I'm wondering how long it took for them to start manufacturing their own idols/images to replace the ones of Zeus, Jupiter and Diana?

Having already told you over and over that Catholics reverence the Crucifix and statues of the Saints only insofar as they remind us of our Lord Jesus Christ, our God, of our BLessed Lady, and of the Saints, I thought we had laid this to rest ...yet, here you are with another fraudelent attack against the Catholic Church.

Your attack though has gone too far. You are way of out whack if you believe making, selling and buying images of Christ, whether as a Baby in the manger, Boy of 12 teaching in the Temple, or as a wounded, sorrowful Man crucified on the Cross is in any way comparable or likened to those who made and worshipped idols, images and statues of Zeus, Jupiter and Diana.

KFC,

I've spoken to and read about lots of people who have left the Church and their reasons for doing so. Like you, many portray themselves as truth seeking judges who no longer want to give their allegience to the faith of their fathers, the Apostles preferring to walk through Luther's wide-open door of Protest-ism and experience religious individualism, the broad expanse outside without duty or dogma.

What I'm saying is it's past time to stop fraudelently protest-ing against the Church for your falling away from it.

236

lulapilgrim

on Dec 17, 2008

KFC POSTS:

I respectfully disagree. We don't reject the Torah at all. It's like I keep saying it's very instrumental to the NT as well. The New Covenant comes out of the Old Covenant. They go together.

I couldn't agree with you more that the Torah, as well as the rest of the OT, was very instrumental to the NT.

The Old Covenant and the New Covenant may "go together" insofar as the Old was preparatory for the New...other than that, they are distinctly different.

The Old Covenant was made through Moses.....made with only one nation, the Isrealites...made to last for a limited time...was sealed with the blood of animal victims.....made severe laws but the power of observing them was not given and that's why the Isrealites longed for the promised Savior.

The New Covenant was made through Jesus Christ.....made for all mankind....will last until the end of time....was sealed with the Blood of God made Man....has abundant grace given by God, if only we desire to do so, to observe its own holy laws.

AD POSTS; #201

I know from our previous discussions that you agree some of the feasts are yet to be fulfilled your POV is unique in comparison to the generalities of "Christianity."

Good point, AD. OT feasts yet to be fulfilled? Doesn't make sense becasue with Christ, the Abrahamic Covenant was fulfilled, and the Mosaic C. rabbinical rites, ceremonies, sacrifices, etc. revoked. And worse, according to St.Paul, they bring a curse to those who obstinately cling to them. Gal. 3:10.

237

lulapilgrim

on Dec 17, 2008

AD POSTS #201

Before the "New Covenant" Israel had to go through one earthly High Priest for the atoning of sins. Is Jesus not the new High Priest? In doing away with the Old Testament he would have then done away with his own Cohen Gadol (High Priest) position that Hebrews says HE retains.

Hebrews 13:8 expresses the foundation of the life of every Christian. "Jesus Christ is the same yesterday and today and forever." It's an expression of faith, an act of adoration and reverence very similiar to the praise of the one God in Deut. 6:4 or of the Eternal God in Psalm (101)102:13 only here it's Jesus Christ who is being extolled. Even though the Old Dispensation has been revoked, Christ is the Eternal High Priest....He always was and always will be. Christ possesses the true definitive priesthood for He exercises His ministry in the sanctuary of Heaven, where He is seated at the right hand of the Magesty in Heaven, God the Father.

The passages in Hebrews 8:3-6 say that in Heaven, Christ, the Eternal High Priest, continuously presents to the father the fruits of the Cross. In the New Covenant there is only one sacrifice...that of Christ on Calvary. This single sacrificie is renewed in an unbloody manner every day in the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass. There Jesus Christ, the only High Priest of the New Covenant, immolates and offers, by means of ordained priests who are His ministers, the same victim (Body and Blood) which was immolated in a bloody manner once and for all on the Cross.

238

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Dec 17, 2008

Ha, first you predict the passage means the literal rebuiliding of the Temple and now probably soon! Uh, uh we are not supposed to do that...no one knows when Christ will come again except God Himself. We must keep prayerful watch and persevere in the faith. No predictions!

First of all I didn't predict anything but that there will be a Temple built. The reason I say soon is because they are all ready in Israel to do so and the scriptures (as I keep saying) is showing this will be a reality. They have already built a model of this. Did you know about that? They have the Priesthood all ready. Did you know about that? They have the cornerstone. They have the oil etc. Predicting that a Temple will be built soon has nothing to do with predicting the day Christ would come. Christ even said although we wouldn't know the "day" or the "hour" we will know the "season." He gave us very specific things to watch for in Matthew 24 for one thing.

Having already told you over and over that Catholics reverence the Crucifix and statues of the Saints only insofar as they remind us of our Lord Jesus Christ, our God, of our BLessed Lady, and of the Saints, I thought we had laid this to rest ...yet, here you are with another fraudelent attack against the Catholic Church.

This is not an attack Lula. It's a matter of fact. Does the CC reap millions of dollars on the sale of their statues or don't they?

Yes or no? We didn't lay anything to rest. Just because you declare it isn't so, doesn't mean it isn't so.

Lula everything you've written in a nutshell can be summed up in one sentence from your POV.

The Catholic Church is the only legitimate Church and also has replaced the Jews who have no hope because God is done with the Jews.

Like you, many portray themselves as truth seeking judges who no longer want to give their allegience to the faith of their fathers, the Apostles preferring to walk through Luther's wide-open door of Protest-ism and experience religious individualism, the broad expanse outside without duty or dogma.

[quote]What I'm saying is it's past time to stop fraudelently protest-ing against the Church for your falling away from it. [quote]

and this just proves it. The dogma we have are the scriptures. That's it. The RCC has lots of dogma alright. You follow your dogma and I'll follow the scriptures.

Judges? Fathers? The RCC took and kidnapped Christianity Lula. Sorry to tell you but the "fathers" you speak of were not Catholics until the 4th Century so if you're speaking before the 4th Century the church WAS NOT considered RCC.

Good point, AD. OT feasts yet to be fulfilled? Doesn't make sense becasue with Christ, the Abrahamic Covenant was fulfilled, and the Mosaic C. rabbinical rites, ceremonies, sacrifices, etc. revoked. And worse, according to St.Paul, they bring a curse to those who obstinately cling to them. Gal. 3:10.

This is nothing more than Catholic speak against the Jews Lula. God IS NOT DONE with the Jews. Read Romans 11 for one thing or Zechariah 12-14.

Did Christ come as the Passover Lamb? Yes or no? Was that a Jewish Feast? Yes or no? Was he called a firstfruit? Yes or No? Was there a feast called Feast of Firstfruits? Yes or No? Was he representative of unleavened bread (without sin) yes or no? Was there a Feast called The Feast of Unleavened Bread? Yes or no?

The last few Feasts left have not happened yet. This will be the time he turns back to the Jews Lula. I know you don't understand this because you've been taught the CC is the endall and God is done with the Jews because they killed Christ. But he's not done with the Jews.

God doesn't need the Jews or any one of us, but He created us becasue He loves us. God wants us to fully accept the teachings of His Divine Son and to save our souls by doing the things He taught which are preserved in His Mystical Body, the Church. So, the only plans the Jews should have is the same as the rest of us and that is to save their eternal souls and Christ Himself showed us the way to do that. To be saved, like St.Paul who was steeped in Judaism from his childhood, they need to resolutely leave modern Judaism behind and be baptized in the CC, the New Isreal.

and this just proves it. The CC is NOT THE NEW ISRAEL. That's called Replacement theory. It's not true. It's very anti-semetic for one thing. Paul was NOT a Roman Catholic Lula. He wrote the book of Romans to the Roman Christians as he did to the Christians in Corinth, Ephesus and Thessalonica. But they had nothing to do with the denomination that we know today as the RCC.

When your cage gets rattled Lula, out comes the truth. The Jews have to be converted Catholic to be saved.

239

Leauki

on Dec 17, 2008

Lula everything you've written in a nutshell can be summed up in one sentence from your POV.

The Catholic Church is the only legitimate Church and also has replaced the Jews who have no hope because God is done with the Jews.

A good summary of what seems to be Lula's religion.

But if Jesus is the Messiah Christians think he is, then I am sure the Jews will be fine.

The CC is NOT THE NEW ISRAEL. That's called Replacement theory. It's not true. It's very anti-semetic for one thing. Paul was NOT a Roman Catholic Lula.

Correct, KFC.

240

KFC Kickin For Christ

on Dec 17, 2008

Here's why St.Paul isn't talking about a literal rebuilding of the Temple.... let's go to the Greek word for temple, which is naos. St.Paul never once uses naos to designate the Temple of the Jews in Jerusalem (which is hieron 1Cor.9:13). When St.Paul uses naos, he's referring to New Covenant temples which could include either the Church or the individual Christian, both of which are New Covenant temples indwelt by the Holy SPirit. 1Cor. 3:16-17; 6:19; 2Cor. 6:16, and Eph. 2:21.

Wrong!

3485

naos { nah-os’}

from a primary naio (to dwell); TDNT - 4:880,625; n m

AV - temple 45, a shrine 1; 46

GK - 3724 { naov" }

1) used of the temple at Jerusalem, but only of the sacred edifice (or sanctuary) itself, consisting of the Holy place and the Holy of Holies (in classical Greek it is used of the sanctuary or cell of the temple, where the image of gold was placed which is distinguished from the whole enclosure)

Naos means shrine or sanctuary. In this case the inner sanctuary. This word was used among the heathen to denote the shrine containing the idol, Acts 17:24, 19:24 and among the Jews, the sanctuary in the Temple into which only priests could lawfully enter; Luke 1:9, 21, 22.

So in 2 Thess 2:4 when Paul was talking about the man of Perdition sitting in the holy place or inner sanctuary he was talking a literal inner temple sanctuary.

According to a Gk dictionary I have on this "naos" word:

"The "temple" mentioned 2 Thess 2:4 (naos) as the seat of the Man of Sin, has been regarded in diff ways. The weight of Scripture evidence is in favor of the view that it refers to a literal "temple" in Jerusalem to be reconstructed in the future (Daniel 11:31, 12:11 with Matt 24:15).

As a side note you can see this same Naos in Eph 2:21, Rev 3:12,7:15,11:1,2,19, 14:15,17..etc.

How about this one Lula? "The veil of the temple (naos) was rent in two" Luke 23:45. Are you going to tell me that wasn't literal?