MM, here's some extra info for ya.

WWW Link

Exxon paid 49% in taxes which does NOT include, the taxes they paid from all their employees (at least 35%), permit fees, etc.

Here's some other good reading.

WWW Link

This in addition to the taxes collected directly at the pump that you mentioned it is surprising that the oil companies are still being as successful as they are.

The democrats wanting high gas prices is no secret. That they pontificate and act like it is some sort of conspiracy is not one either. Combine the 2, and yep! hypocrite.

In all honesty, the only one that appears not to be on this issue is Obama.

Hey, nice to see an MM article. 

Hope all has been well for you, and hope things go poorly for the Dems to help keep it that way for you

I think the issue of oil effects almost everyone currently. So tracking back the issue of why oil prices are so high is something we should all have a vested interest in.

Currently, there is no shortage of oil, we are not running out, there's enough to last a few more decades yet. There is a flawed thinking within the captalist mindset that price is effected soley by supply and demand.

Unfortunatley everything is not as black and white. The price of oil being so high is not a supply and demand issue.

There is a legal loop hole in commodities that allows for oil prices to be manipulated by hedge fund investors and investment bankers to hike up oil prices. Essentially it allows these trades to operate outside your own countries regulations, which were only recently modified to counter such manipulation when they passed the 'Enron Loophole' bill.

The Enron issue was actually caused when Phil Gramm passed a bill (at the behest of Enron lobbyists) that exempted particluar energy companies from goverement trade regulation. The idea behind this was to allow them to better manage risk and bring lower prices to consumers, however in the hands of people whose only interest is profit any such noble intentions go out of the window.

So your goverment did something about it, but guess what, it's not enough. These traders and investors are still able to maniupulate the oil market through the United Kingdom and Dubai markets (refered to as Dark Markets as they are not open to transparency), including oil that is destined for the US. 

By the way Dr Guy - Obama has got invovled with the oil issue, he proposed just the other week to implement a tax on any barrel of oil over the price of $80, which will be used to improve the efficencey in domestic homes, whether that turns out to be the case or not i don't know.

Anyways it's most speculators that cause the issue we are in today, not the actual people drilling and providing energy unfortunatley, that's not to say they don't make huge profits and shouldn't be taxed to high heaven, but then again thats another discussion entirely .

Sorry I was not clearer. I did not mean to imply that Obama was not involved with the Oil issue, but that he was not being Hypcritical on it. He is honest in stating he wants higher prices as that is the only thing that is going to ween us off of it. His proposals will just make it go higher. Which is fine from an ethical point of view. He is not pretending to be outraged over the price, as that is exactly what the liberal agenda wants.

As for your issues with speculators, again, you are wrong. Speculators are just guessers - and the good ones guess right. oil sitting under your mattress is worthless. Someone who is going to use it has to buy it. The speculators are just guessing the direction of the market and taking advantage of it. The law of supply and demand is still in effect and working. The Supply is not the total amount of reserves, but the amount that is being pumped. So a producer (in this case OPEC and the US liberals) can affect the price, by not producing. Speculators can only guess what is going to happen next and react accordingly.

just buzzed  by for a second to see if any Democrats had anything to say about all this, but as usual when confronted with their own hypocrisy they remain silent! Be back when I can get to my own computer.

Where did that come from? I always thought he was one of the poorest Senators. In 2006 he was ranked 95th in average net worth in the Senate. Here's a link proving that, and the fact that he is FAR from a multi-millionaire, based on the latest data available WWW Link

What's the source for all this stuff? Seems like, if they made that up to bolster their point (classic Republican tactic), then they can't be trusted to get the quotes or anything else right. And you definitely shouldn't be lecturing others about hypocrisy when your post contains blatant BS.


It doesn't really work to rhetorically ask in written form how to spell something you just spelled. If you were speaking it could sort of work, but this just looks dumb.


Who says that? I've never heard anyone say it. I think the straw man who lives in the
straw house in your straw head may have said it, but other than that no one comes to mind.
Can you quote any prominent Democrat, pundit or politician, who has said that (and link the source)?

Completely true, but then why let facts get in the way, right?



Ahh so you aren't allowed to point out criminal price gouging if you are wealthy.

Yeah that makes sense.



They shouldn't be lecturing them, they should be ordering their arrest and criminal prosecution for gouging taxpaying Americans.

Republicans willing to do anything to justify the fascist oilmen thugs in the white house orchestrating the economic destruction of the United States is no secret.

Your lobotomy is no secret. Please go play with yourself somewhere else.

Based upon what laws and what evidence? So far as anyone knows, including the Democrats in office, there is no evidence at all that they have actually broken any laws. Amazing how people who claim to be progressive and to represent people's rights are so quick to want to throw people in prison whether they have actually broken any laws or not.

Taking oil off the unregulated market will go a long way towards stabilizing oil prices. Hiking up taxes or throwing people in jail who haven't broken any laws isn't going to fix the problem.



That's a funny statement considering energy prices didn't start shooting up until after the Democrats won the majority in the House and Senate (and haven't done anything at about it since then).

Incorrect statement. Check with the Department of Energy website. Gas prices began a steady increase since the war in Iraq started. New Democrats that make up the slim majority in the House and the practically nonexistent one in the Senate (given Leiberman's effective conversion)didn't take office until Jan. of 2007.

One of the fundamental underlying causes of the current price crisis is the devaluation of the dollar (look it up, it's true.) There is no reasonable way you can lay this at the Democrat's feet. Show me cause and effect. What did they do to cause gas prices (which were already steadily rising)to spike in 19 months? What should they have done to prevent it (and since they don't have the votes to get legislation through without Republican support, and without facing Bush's veto pen, how could they have rallied Republican support behind your proposed solution)?

Now imagine that we had a real leader in the White House for the past 8 years. And that he had decided to pursue alternative energy with the same vigor that Kennedy had us pursue landing on the moon. By now, we'd have a viable way forward...a way out. But, due to the ineptness and lack of leadership we've suffered, instead of being nearly out of the hole, we're further in it. Luckily, that will begin to turn around in 2009.

The key word here is steady. In the past year and a half fuel prices have risen more sharply than at any time in the past. As someone who pumps between 150 - 280 gallons of diesel into my vehicle almost every day I've seen the prices jump at an incredible rate firsthand.



It's true the devaluation of the dollar is a big part of the problem, but so is market speculation, world-wide demand, and many other factors.

My point was not that the Democrats are directly responsible, but rather that despite all of their campaign promises to address the energy price crunch they have done nothing at all about it. Nor have they even tried.

But that's really no surprise as campaign promises from both sides of the aisle are rarely kept. As an independent, I blame both sides of the political spectrum for playing party politics instead of addressing the real issues and doing their damn jobs.



Yes, of course. Just look at all of that work that been done prior to the current administration. Get real, little to nothing has ever been done along these lines regardless of who has been in the White House. That has far more to do with Congress than the White House. They're all a pack of bastards and always have been.



Yeah, keep telling yourself that. Time will tell but I'm betting you're deluding yourself here.

But they simply don't have the votes, do they? They have the slimmest of majorities in both Houses and a Republican in the White House. Most of their solutions involve things Republicans aren't historically very big on, such as alternative sources of energy and cracking down on oil companies. You can't really expect them to just send up bill after bill, knowing they're doomed to fail. In order to gain traction on a new energy policy, they're basically going to have to wait until Obama takes office. In the meantime, they're in oversight and investigate mode.

I guess I'm not as cynical as you, as far as prospects for the future. If Obama does indeed win, that will be a hell of a difference from an administration that essentially works for the oil companies (and puts oil men in positions to regulate oil companies). I'm not saying it's going to be all wine and roses after, but I think we will finally get on the road to the future, as opposed to idling and waiting for the next crisis to hit.

And, just purely out of curiosity, have you or the company you work for ever looked into that deal where you can buy vouchers for gas when it's cheap, so that you pay the low rate even when prices spike? One of the truck drivers that delivers at work was talking about it -- sounded like a good deal (but granted it wouldn't help you much right now.)

Hello,

     Just wanted to introduce myself. I'm new to this board and read a few discussions and wanted to get involved as I saw a lot of Republican gloating and pontificating. This is not a big surprise to me. I'll be honest, the last decade or so has bred a lot of hate between left and right and I'll admit I've fallen victim to it. I would like to say I am moderate but more likely I am more liberal. I am willing to debate my opinions calmly, but I have very strong opinions. Let me tell you a little about myself. My name is David and I'm 25. I own and run an appraisal company called Orange Star Appraisal in Virginia. I do very well for myself and have a strong love of politics. I want to give a shout to all the progressives on the board. Again, forgive me for my opinions but I don't want to give the repubs here a false sense of majority or assumed power. Everything is up for debate and there are a lot more intelligent and sensible dems out there than you might give credit for. I assume the same is true for the other side.

 

~David