America has problems, but America is NOT THE PROBLEM!~
Published on November 7, 2007 By Moderateman In Religion

The idea G-D who is all powerful, all knowing and all seeing , needing prayers to go through someone else to reach his ears is beyond silly if you take a moment to think about it, and then to think that only one specific group of people are worthy of communing with him to the exclusion of all others is beyond rational thought!

The idea that all the childrens prayers in written form start off with "dear G-d"" will not reach him if it somehow does not make a stop at Jesus desk first is cruel and mean spirited. To believe that only G-d knows how many childrens prayers from many other religions besides Christianity falls on deaf ears because the prayers were not offered in Jesus name, is once again Not G-dly.

This weekend I went to a wedding in a Catholic Church, at the front of the Church was a depiction of Jesus being crucified, I saw people kneeing in front of this Idol, worshiping and when done making the sign of the cross. This is against one of the Ten Commandments:

"TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Yes that whole graven Image thing rears its ugly head.

I saw Images depicting Mary and people touching the image and praying, "holy Mary mother of G-d" were some of the words I heard. What? Mary has now been elevated to being G-ds Mother? Even Colleen was blown away by this display of heathen behavior.

If you believe in G-d, the creator of all things, somehow 2000 odd years ago got tired and decided he needed help answering prayers, you need to check you belief system again, If you believe in G-d, who is all love, decided that only one group of people, be them Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Shinto, or Christian were worthy of him listening to and answering prayers, you have checked your humanity at the womb!

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Comments (Page 4)
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on Nov 09, 2007
From what I can tell thusfar by reading your comments defending your position, you think the actual words of the Torah, the Five Books of Moses, actually mean something. If I were to take those passages about God out of context, twist them around and insinuate something else totally, you might not be amused and certainly wouldn't buy it.


I may not buy it because I could maybe get a better price down the street?

I put a disclaimer on it even and still....

Not sure how I took it out of context either.
on Nov 09, 2007
The only reason Joseph still married her was an angel appeared to him and gave him the scoop. He was going to send her away.
on Nov 09, 2007
"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death"


Catholics believe that God is one being in three divine persons, the Father (probably who most people think of when they think of "God", the son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.


Loca, the problem here is the inconsistency of these two points. Assuming(and i emphasize that assumption)that Jesus is as they say above, then the Blessed Mary is NOT the mother of God, She is the mother of Jesus who as the second statement show is NOT God. The first statement would be ok if it had said "Mother of Jesus" or "Mother of Son of God".

Anyone can write as many essays as they want explaining, actually rationalizing that, still they won't wash the inconsistency away no matter how long or how convoluted the essays are.

Unfortunately, this won't change anything. it's been there for too long and it is too entrenched to change.

on Nov 10, 2007
Loca, the problem here is the inconsistency of these two points. Assuming(and i emphasize that assumption)that Jesus is as they say above, then the Blessed Mary is NOT the mother of God, She is the mother of Jesus who as the second statement show is NOT God. The first statement would be ok if it had said "Mother of Jesus" or "Mother of Son of God".


The problem with your statements is you are looking for a physical explanation to a matter of faith and spirit. Christians believe (note the word) that Jesus IS God, and since Mary bore him and birthed him, she is the mother of God. Jesus is God Made man.

That is a belief, and a core tenet with Christian faith. It is not something to be proved in a laboratory for the whole world to see. It is either accepted on faith, or not. That is what faith is all about. You can no more prove that it is not true, than a Christian can prove it is true.
on Nov 10, 2007
Christians believe (note the word) that Jesus IS God, and since Mary bore him and birthed him,


I can understand that. The problem still exists , however. IS Jesus God or IS Jesus Son of God as Loca's second statement indicate?

Comon Doc, if you (not you personally Doc) are going to start talking about the Physical nature of God, then it must be physically logical. I always said let's not go into what God's nature is, we humans can never understand it. HE is at a higher level than we can possibly attain as far as understanding the REAL nature of things.

No one argues against the simple fact that Jesus was speaking for God. If jesus Is God then he is speaking for himself, but he still speaking for God. we all agree on that. To go any further and start disecting what God is starts the problem of being logical so humans can understand and live with it. Just leave it at the point that Jesus was speaking for God. Period. No more disecting. and no need to. the point is utterly meaningless for our lives.

We all will know the Reality of it all sooner or later. Leave it at that. we all will be well off that way. The God you speaking of in all this IS the God of Abraham, isn't HE? leave it at that and all Jews, Christians and Muslims will be in total agreement. the disagreement starts to show its ugly head when we start disecting PHYSICALLY what GOD's nature is. isn't it better to leave that out of discussion?it serves no purpose. actually it creats more harm than good.

Visualize God in your mind as you wish, just dont verbalize it. because we humans cant and shouldn't since we are not qualified to do so. What is wrong with verbalizing that? It leads to using His name in vain, that is why. We all dont know the REAL nature of God, we shouldn't even approach it. as you noticed, some jewish people are even careful not to use the word God which is generic,it is not HIS real name but still they respect the fact they shouldnt even approach HIS nature that way. may be they are overcautious, but it is better to be overcautious than careless with HIM. we all should be careful like that when it comes to HIS nature and using His name.
on Nov 10, 2007
if you (not you personally Doc) are going to start talking about the Physical nature of God,


I have not followed the discussion completely, so I am not sure who is discussing his Physical nature. However, since Jesus is God Made Man, one can discuss that aspect of the physical nature. I am no biblical scholar, and I usually bow out when discussions get to that point. So I will leave it at that.

But I will leave you with this thought. Regardless of whether you agree with others on their faith or not, arguing logically about it is not going to change anyone's opinion. That it defies human understanding is about the only thing that all will agree on.
on Nov 10, 2007
No sense to be going on and on about how other Jewish moms might or might not be....no one of them can or will ever compare to the Blessed Mother of Christ, Lord God and Savior of all mankind. End of story.


Lula, I still don't see how this was taken out of context. I see your offense and I am sorry however the reality is... Mary was a Jewish Mother! I believe she was even of the line of David (tribe of Judah). Jesus as we know was a Jew and lived like a Jew (from the tribe of Judah).

You have accused me of taking these words out of context please explain to me how I have done so.
on Nov 10, 2007
AD posts:
You have accused me of taking these words out of context please explain to me how I have done so.


AD,

We are talking about this passage:

Here's St.John 2:1-5

"And the third day, there was a marraige in Cana of Galilee; and the mother of Jesus was there. 2 And Jesus also was invited, and His disciples, to the marriage. 3 And the wine failing, the mother of Jesus said to Him, "They have no wine." 4 And Jesus said to her, "Woman, what is that to Me and to thee?" My hour has not yet come." 5 His mother said to the servants. "Do whatever He tells you."


And you said:

Mary suggested to Jesus to turn water into wine (John 2:1-11)
This is no basis that Mary has authority OVER Jesus in the spiritual realm.



I corrected your erroneous interpretation by telling you that the Blessed Mother did not suggest that Jesus turn water into wine. The passage doesn't infer or suggest that in any way, shape or form. From The Blessed Mother telling Jesus, they have no wine, could have resulted in any number of reactions from Jesus.

But you wouldn't accept that and made up a visual Jewish mother scenario that totally took this Scriptural passage way out of context of who Jesus is and who His mother is.....

I've highlighted the words you used to demean them and their relationship of mother to son and son to mother...

Jesus is kicking back enjoying the party in the fine straw weaved chair.
Mom comes up to where Jesus is sitting and stops putting her hands on her hips and toe begins to tap. She tilts her head and in a veching tone she says, "They have no wine," pausing afterwards and increasing the tone of tapping to emphasize the guilt trip.

Jesus smirks back disrespectfully, "Woman, what is that to me and to thee, my hour has not yet come?"

Mom gives the LOOK (oh yeah we guys know what I'm talking about here)!

"Oy Vey!" Jesus thinks to himself!

Jesus sensing that the Mother's wrath is about to bring thunder and lightening to the party, jumps up out of his chair scrambling to the door where the pots of water are.

Being content with the successful veching she smugly tells the servants, "Do whatever He tells you."


Now, AD, let's take what Thinkaloud just posted:

Visualize God in your mind as you wish, just dont verbalize it. because we humans cant and shouldn't since we are not qualified to do so. What is wrong with verbalizing that? It leads to using His name in vain, that is why. We all dont know the REAL nature of God, we shouldn't even approach it. as you noticed, some jewish people are even careful not to use the word God which is generic,it is not HIS real name but still they respect the fact they shouldnt even approach HIS nature that way. may be they are overcautious, but it is better to be overcautious than careless with HIM. we all should be careful like that when it comes to HIS nature and using His name.


and tell me what your reaction would be if I took passages from the Torah and redescribed them very irreverently and carelessly demeaning God by taking the passages way out of context.



on Nov 10, 2007
Locamama posts:
"Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death"


Catholics believe that God is one being in three divine persons, the Father (probably who most people think of when they think of "God", the son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit.


AD POSTS: Loca, the problem here is the inconsistency of these two points. Assuming(and i emphasize that assumption)that Jesus is as they say above, then the Blessed Mary is NOT the mother of God, She is the mother of Jesus who as the second statement show is NOT God. The first statement would be ok if it had said "Mother of Jesus" or "Mother of Son of God".



AD,

There is absolutely no inconsistency with this when properly understood.

Right reason tells us that the Incarnation is within the power of an Infinite All-Mighty God. Besides, we have the foretelling of its occurrence and substantial evidence of it having taken place. Isaias foretold the coming of a virgin who would bring forth the "Emmanuel, God with us" 7:14; God, the Mighty, --prince of Peace 9:6.

Non Catholics who make the Blessed Virgin Mary only the Mother of Jesus do so because they do not accept the true doctrine of the Incarnation which is God made true man or that Jesus Christ possesses a Divine and Human nature in one Divine Personality.

Jesus was a divine Person who assumed our human nature in the womb of the BLessed Virgin Mary. She was the mother of the Second Person of the Blessed trinity, and therefore the mother of GOd.

Mary was the mother of Jesus becasue she not only carried Him in her womb but also supplied all the genetic matter for his human nature..since it was through her that Jesus "was descended from David according to the flesh." Rom. 1:3.

Since the Blessed Mary is Jesus' mother, it must be concluded that she is also the MOther of God. If she is the mother of Jesus, and Jesus is God, then she is the Mother of God. There is no way out of this logical syllogism.

We say that she is the Mother of God in the sense that she carried in her womb a divine Person, --Jesus Christ, God "in the flesh" 2St.John7; John 1:14 and in the sense that she contributed the genetic matter to the human form God took in Jesus Christ.

So, to Catholics--- Jesus Christ is God, God was born of the Blessed Virgin Mary, God shed His Blood for us on Calvary; that God died.

on Nov 10, 2007
We all will know the Reality of it all sooner or later. Leave it at that. we all will be well off that way. The God you speaking of in all this IS the God of Abraham, isn't HE? leave it at that and all Jews, Christians and Muslims will be in total agreement. the disagreement starts to show its ugly head when we start disecting PHYSICALLY what GOD's nature is. isn't it better to leave that out of discussion?


Yes, the One, True and Holy God that Christians believe is the the God of Abraham. However, for Christians, it goes beyond that. Why? Becasue God revealed Himself further first from Christ and His teachings handed down through His Apostles and their successors and by written Revelation of the New Testament.

Only in Christianity will you find the fullness; the completeness of God's Revelation.

There is really no difficulty in understanding the distinction between personhood and nature. After all, was your mother the mother of you? It is a person who is conceived and born, right? What person was born of the Blessed Mother Mary? A divine Person only, not a human person, but a Divine Person who took on human form.

Non-Catholics deny that the Blessed Virgin Mary is the Mother of God becasue that implies doubt about Christ's divinity and Catholics just won't buy that.



on Nov 10, 2007
DrGuy posts:
That it defies human understanding is about the only thing that all will agree on.


BINGO!
on Nov 11, 2007
I corrected your erroneous interpretation by telling you that the Blessed Mother did not suggest that Jesus turn water into wine


Well, we will just have to agree to disagree on that one.

I didn't intend to offend only to present another perspective of that passage of scripture. I will leave this one to rest.

Were you able to finish your fall cleaning?
on Nov 11, 2007
Regardless of whether you agree with others on their faith or not, arguing logically about it is not going to change anyone's opinion.


Definitely, i said that already and we fully agree on that.
on Nov 15, 2007

Reply By: ThinkAloudPosted: Sunday, November 11, 2007
Regardless of whether you agree with others on their faith or not, arguing logically about it is not going to change anyone's opinion.


Definitely, i said that already and we fully agree on that.

I for one am not trying to change anyones mind, I am trying to get a better understanding of how other religions think and why in one religion {Christianity} there seems to be so much discord.

on Nov 15, 2007





Reply By: ThinkAloudPosted: Sunday, November 11, 2007
Regardless of whether you agree with others on their faith or not, arguing logically about it is not going to change anyone's opinion.


Definitely, i said that already and we fully agree on that.


I for one am not trying to change anyones mind, I am trying to get a better understanding of how other religions think and why in one religion {Christianity} there seems to be so much discord.




The reason for so much discord in the christian sect is because of their mother the universal/catholic church of Rome,see Rome wants to still control religon and they have been doing a fine job of reunifying the breakaways back to her decrees.

See we are at war with mithra of rome wanting to try and still a birthright not theirs but one given to the children of Israel in a eternal covenant,all we have to do is except the terms of that covenant or reject the terms for judgement.
Pastor Terry
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