America has problems, but America is NOT THE PROBLEM!~
Published on November 7, 2007 By Moderateman In Religion

The idea G-D who is all powerful, all knowing and all seeing , needing prayers to go through someone else to reach his ears is beyond silly if you take a moment to think about it, and then to think that only one specific group of people are worthy of communing with him to the exclusion of all others is beyond rational thought!

The idea that all the childrens prayers in written form start off with "dear G-d"" will not reach him if it somehow does not make a stop at Jesus desk first is cruel and mean spirited. To believe that only G-d knows how many childrens prayers from many other religions besides Christianity falls on deaf ears because the prayers were not offered in Jesus name, is once again Not G-dly.

This weekend I went to a wedding in a Catholic Church, at the front of the Church was a depiction of Jesus being crucified, I saw people kneeing in front of this Idol, worshiping and when done making the sign of the cross. This is against one of the Ten Commandments:

"TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Yes that whole graven Image thing rears its ugly head.

I saw Images depicting Mary and people touching the image and praying, "holy Mary mother of G-d" were some of the words I heard. What? Mary has now been elevated to being G-ds Mother? Even Colleen was blown away by this display of heathen behavior.

If you believe in G-d, the creator of all things, somehow 2000 odd years ago got tired and decided he needed help answering prayers, you need to check you belief system again, If you believe in G-d, who is all love, decided that only one group of people, be them Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Shinto, or Christian were worthy of him listening to and answering prayers, you have checked your humanity at the womb!

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Comments (Page 2)
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on Nov 08, 2007

Reply By: Locamama

I will read the other comments in a minute, but your response here is excellent.  And to the point.  That is how it is supposed to be, but I have seen some that do pray to the icons and Mary, instead of praying for intercession.  The former is heresay, but they usually do not understand the difference (the ones so doing).

Great response.

on Nov 08, 2007

Ok, Hoakie time.  Remember "It's a Wonderful life"?  At the beginning, the angels were talking to each other and listening to all the people asking God to help george Bailey out.  Is that wrong MM?

Asking Mary (not praying to) to interceed on your behalf is the same thing.  Perhaps her voice has no more weight than anyone elses when it comes to God (but as the mother of Jesus, people naturally assume that one's mother has more pull with you than does another person).  But then it does not hurt to have a chorus of people praying for you either, does it?  Here on JU, we are often asked for prayers for individuals.  The requestor is not praying to us, but asking us to pray for the person in question.

So it is with prayers of Intercession.  You are asking others (in this case the saints, or Mary) to pray for you to God.

Now, as I indicated in my first response, there are some that actually do pray to Icons and Mary.  This is more an issue of ignorance, and not some type of blashpemy.  They simply do not understand what they are doing, or really why.  And it is not a teaching of the church.

You said that you saw some praying to the Cruxifiction.  That is a very powerful symbol in the Catholic church, but that is all it is.  Just a statue of a symbol.  It would shock some people to know that at my church, we have crosses, but the only Cruxifiction in it is a mobile one that is used during Lent for the stations of the cross prayer service.  None are affixed to the structure.  It is a new church.  Built about 10 years ago.  And many of the churches (Catholic) built recently are just like mine (indeed, it was my cousin's church that we got our idea of how to structure the worship space from - and his was built back in the 70s).

The older structures, built pre Vatican II, are usually modeled after the Cathedrals of Europe, so there is a lot of Stained glass and yes statues.  And the reason for those ornate decorations has really nothing to do with the faith, but with man's ego to make the house of God the most ornate structure in the community.  Should nto God's house (their way of thinking hundreds of years ago) be the best one in the community? Their value system was that the most powerful and influential among us had the best houses, and thus the Cathedrals were born (and the mystique grew up around them).

on Nov 08, 2007

Reply By: lulapilgrimPosted: Wednesday, November 07, 2007
Does this help you better understand that Christ is the one Mediator of redemption for all now?



Again you leave out the vast Majority of the worlds population, this again is typical" Jesus is the only way to G-d" NOT!


No, MM. I said that Christ was the ONE Mediatior of Redemption for all, not that Christ was the ONLY Mediator. Big difference.

Anyone can intercede on our behalf to God. Didn't you ask prayers for your nephew Chris? That was you interceding to us on his behalf. All prayers, petitions and requests to God, if asked with a clean heart, are good whether directly or asked through an intercessory mediation.

Who else plays such a role as mediator between man and G-d?

on Nov 08, 2007
MM,

Take a look at Mythra and then take that and hold it up to Catholicism.

Cheat sheet:

god the father (Nimrod) ----- god the father

Mother of god (Ishtar sounds like Easter) ----- Mary mother of god

son of god became sun god (Tammuz) ---- son of god became sun god (Sunday worship)

Note Tammuz is believed to have been born at winter solstice. Hmmm what other holiday is there near there? Oh Yeah X-mas. Ishtar was the mother of Tammuz through a immaculate conception after Nimrod's death. She was classified as a fertility god. mmmmm easter eggs and rabbits.

There are some tantalizing tidbits to wet your curiosity MM.

Note to Catholics:
I don't have animosity towards you as a person (non-Catholics included) please please understand that. I understand we are all trying to get to the same place.
on Nov 08, 2007
Who else plays such a role as mediator between man and G-d?


good question
on Nov 08, 2007

 

Reply By: Dr GuyPosted: Thursday, November 08, 2007
Ok, Hoakie time. Remember "It's a Wonderful life"? At the beginning, the angels were talking to each other and listening to all the people asking God to help george Bailey out. Is that wrong MM?

Nope, tis a wonderful thing.

So it is with prayers of Intercession. You are asking others (in this case the saints, or Mary) to pray for you to God.

Ok this is clear and I can get behind this kind of reasoning.

 

You said that you saw some praying to the Cruxifiction. That is a very powerful symbol in the Catholic church, but that is all it is. Just a statue of a symbol. It would shock some people to know that at my church, we have crosses, but the only Cruxifiction in it is a mobile one that is used during Lent for the stations of the cross prayer service. None are affixed to the structure. It is a new church. Built about 10 years ago. And many of the churches (Catholic) built recently are just like mine (indeed, it was my cousin's church that we got our idea of how to structure the worship space from - and his was built back in the 70s).
 

To please my ex wife I attended several Church experiences. While there I heard entire prayers go straight to Jesus, period, no mention of G-d,, same with Mary praying to her to answer what it was they needed,. This I cannot understand nor can I support in any way. From your writings it sounds like you think the same as I, At least concerning those two matters.

on Nov 08, 2007
"This I cannot understand nor can I support in any way."

I've had to remind myself lately: You can tell people what you believe. After that, it's all God. You can't make someone believe the same as you. God might be okay with the prayers to Mary, I don't think so, but He might. That's something they'll have to take up with God.
on Nov 08, 2007
God might be okay with the prayers to Mary,


I agree Jythier but it is the why I usually disagree with. I cannot say for Western Catholicism but Eastern Orthodox teach that they pray to Mary because she was the mother of Jesus and can tell him what to do. I find this quite appalling.
on Nov 08, 2007
I just can't see Jesus living in his mother's basement, ordered around by her every whim.
on Nov 08, 2007
I just can't see Jesus living in his mother's basement, ordered around by her every whim.


I would say the same thing but I know a few Rabbi's who do live in their parent's basement (yes semi non-related subject I know).

Hmmm, I'm feeling a song coming on.....

WWW Link
on Nov 08, 2007
good question


'Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus, By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;'
{Hebrews 10:19-20)

Love,
.A.
on Nov 08, 2007

Note to Catholics:
I don't have animosity towards you as a person (non-Catholics included) please please understand that. I understand we are all trying to get to the same place.

You will burn for that one!

Nah, God does not listen to me anyway.

on Nov 08, 2007

I cannot say for Western Catholicism but Eastern Orthodox teach that they pray to Mary because she was the mother of Jesus and can tell him what to do. I find this quite appalling.

I personally had never heard of that!  Mary telling God what to do!  Learn something new....

But as to praying to Jesus, yes, all christians do.  For one of the basic tenets of Christianity is that Jesus is God, so in praying to Jesus, you are praying to God. The differences between the different Christian sects is in how they explain, understand the Trinity and its different manifestations as God, Jesus and the Holy Spirit (Ghost).

on Nov 08, 2007
I personally had never heard of that! Mary telling God what to do! Learn something new....


My Eastern Ortho. friend was telling me it is because in the miracle of turning water into wine at a wedding it was Mary who told Jesus to do it. So based upon that they get this ideology.
on Nov 08, 2007
(Citizen)Adventure-DudeNovember 8, 2007 14:36:57


personally had never heard of that! Mary telling God what to do! Learn something new....


My Eastern Ortho. friend was telling me it is because in the miracle of turning water into wine at a wedding it was Mary who told Jesus to do it. So based upon that they get this ideology.


obviously they have never ran up against a Jewish MOTHER!!!
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