G-D Does NOT need a Intermediary

Published on November 7, 2007 By Moderateman In Religion

The idea G-D who is all powerful, all knowing and all seeing , needing prayers to go through someone else to reach his ears is beyond silly if you take a moment to think about it, and then to think that only one specific group of people are worthy of communing with him to the exclusion of all others is beyond rational thought!

The idea that all the childrens prayers in written form start off with "dear G-d"" will not reach him if it somehow does not make a stop at Jesus desk first is cruel and mean spirited. To believe that only G-d knows how many childrens prayers from many other religions besides Christianity falls on deaf ears because the prayers were not offered in Jesus name, is once again Not G-dly.

This weekend I went to a wedding in a Catholic Church, at the front of the Church was a depiction of Jesus being crucified, I saw people kneeing in front of this Idol, worshiping and when done making the sign of the cross. This is against one of the Ten Commandments:

"TWO: 'You shall not make for yourself a carved image--any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth." Yes that whole graven Image thing rears its ugly head.

I saw Images depicting Mary and people touching the image and praying, "holy Mary mother of G-d" were some of the words I heard. What? Mary has now been elevated to being G-ds Mother? Even Colleen was blown away by this display of heathen behavior.

If you believe in G-d, the creator of all things, somehow 2000 odd years ago got tired and decided he needed help answering prayers, you need to check you belief system again, If you believe in G-d, who is all love, decided that only one group of people, be them Muslim, Jewish, Buddhist, Shinto, or Christian were worthy of him listening to and answering prayers, you have checked your humanity at the womb!

Comments (Page 1)

Locamama

on Nov 07, 2007

I don't think people are worshipping an idol when they say a prayer in front of a crucifix. They are not praying to the object or the thing but to Jesus whom it represents.

Holy Mary, mother of God are words to the prayer Hail Mary and the words are directly from the Bible from when Mary visited John the Baptists mother, Elizabeth. The rest goes "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death". Mary was Jesus mother, therefore the mother of God. That gives her special status, not that she is needed as a go between but some people find solace in a mother figure to pray for intercession. Saying a prayer to Mary is kind of like me saying to you, put in a good word for me with someone that you are close to or asking her to help you too.

Also Catholics believe that God is one being in three divine persons, the Father (probably who most people think of when they think of "God", the son, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. If you pray to one, you pray to all because they are all one.

I am not a Catholic apologist but I was raised in the Catholic church and this is my understanding of the points you brought up.

Moderateman

on Nov 07, 2007

LocamamaNovember 7, 2007 14:37:39

The rest goes "Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death". Mary was Jesus mother, therefore the mother of God.

Heresy! Plain and simple.

Jythier

on Nov 07, 2007

MM:

It is my understanding that only the high priest could go into the Temple's Holy of Holies and make the annual sacrifice for the Jewish people on the day of atonement. God doesn't NEED an intermediary, but He USES intermediaries for the atonement of sin. The high priest for Christians is Jesus, the intermediary between God and us, who atones for us.

This does NOT mean that God doesn't hear prayers. He hears all prayers. They don't have to 'go through' Jesus.

That's why the praying to Mary thing never sat right with me. You can pray to Jesus, who stands before the throne and interceeds for us (and is God), or you could pray to God, who is the father, but Mary isn't God - Mary is special, for sure, but she's not God.

Moderateman

on Nov 07, 2007

Reply By: JythierPosted: Wednesday, November 07, 2007

This does NOT mean that God doesn't hear prayers. He hears all prayers. They don't have to 'go through' Jesus.

That's why the praying to Mary thing never sat right with me. You can pray to Jesus, who stands before the throne and interceeds for us (and is God), or you could pray to God, who is the father, but Mary isn't God - Mary is special, for sure, but she's not God.

Ok this I understand, Why is it then that so many Christians insist that if you do not go through Jesus and recognize him as the son of G-D or sometimes G-D in one of three forms {Father, Son and holy Ghost} your prayers will not be answered?

Jythier

on Nov 07, 2007

As for salvation, that is through Jesus. He's the high priest, the intermediary, the only one who can (and did) atone for our sins. It is my belief that if you pray for salvation you will be led to Jesus.

Moderateman

on Nov 07, 2007

Reply By: JythierPosted: Wednesday, November 07, 2007

I don't know. As far as my personal beliefs, prayer is answered regardless of whether Jesus is specifically recognized as the son of God or part of the trinity. However, just as with Christians, the answer may still be 'no'.

As for salvation, that is through Jesus. He's the high priest, the intermediary, the only one who can (and did) atone for our sins. It is my belief that if you pray for salvation you will be led to Jesus.

Well there is the confusion, if Jesus and G-D are one and the same why would I need to go through the Jesus persona of G-D to get to G-D??

Jythier

on Nov 07, 2007

That's a very good question, MM. It is my understanding that you don't, except to get to heaven.

The penalty for sin is spiritual death. This penalty needs to be paid. Who paid your debt? Well, if you don't believe in Jesus, there's a void there - nobody paid your debt, so you will have to. If you believe in Jesus, and accept his gift of paying your debt, your debt is paid. You have eternal life spiritually, because the debt's already been repaid.

This is, of course, just my understanding of my faith as of today.

lulapilgrim

on Nov 07, 2007

I am not a Catholic apologist but I was raised in the Catholic church and this is my understanding of the points you brought up.

Locamama, up in reply #1, you did good!

Well there is the confusion, if Jesus and G-D are one and the same why would I need to go through the Jesus persona of G-D to get to G-D??

MM,

In Old Covenant, think of the priesthood of Aaron who belonged to the tribe of Levi in Leviticus 28. Aaron was the first High Jewish Priest. What did he do as High Priest? He offered sacrifices at the altar....as High Priest he was to be mediator between Jews and God, right?

It was a priesthood 'according to the carnal commandment' said St.Paul in Hebrews 7:17 and destined to give way to the "priesthood of the order of Melchidesec, a priesthood without genealogy, restored in Christ, the Eternal High Priest.

Does this help you better understand that Christ is the one Mediator of redemption for all now?

No one else can claim for himself, including the Blessed Mother of Christ, the Mediatorship of redemption or ransom for all. That belongs exclusively to Christ.

Moderateman

on Nov 07, 2007

(Citizen)JythierNovember 7, 2007 17:33:15

We Jews have a payment for our sins, it's called Yom Kippur, meaning the day of atonement, We fast completely from sundown to sundown, spend the day in prayer and reflection on the past year, including the sins we have committed, we go directly to G-D to beg for his forgiveness. We need no one to intercede for us, we go to the source of all things G-d Him/Herself.

Moderateman

on Nov 07, 2007

lulapilgrimNovember 7, 2007 18:20:37

unneeded ceremony. We all have G-Ds ear A Rabbi is no closer to G-d than I am.

It was a priesthood 'according to the carnal commandment' said St.Paul in Hebrews 7:17 and destined to give way to the "priesthood of the order of Melchidesec, a priesthood without genealogy, restored in Christ, the Eternal High Priest.

That is a huge "IF" one believes Jesus is the Messiah, I do not.

.

Does this help you better understand that Christ is the one Mediator of redemption for all now?

Again you leave out the vast Majority of the worlds population, this again is typical" Jesus is the only way to G-d" NOT!

!

No one else can claim for himself, including the Blessed Mother of Christ, the Mediatorship of redemption or ransom for all. That belongs exclusively to Christ.

No it belongs exclusively to G-D.

lulapilgrim

on Nov 07, 2007

Nothing wrong with going directly to the Almighty Lord our God..we do too...every time we pray the Our Father aka the Lord's Prayer which Christ taught...

I'm curious though, what if you desire to reflect upon your sins on a time other than Yom Kippur, what then?

Also, what if you wait all year for this one time, and something happens, say your sick in bed and miss this occasion? What then?

Catholics also have a couple of ways for making reparation for sin. The function of our priests is to offer the Sacrifice of the Mass in commemoration of Him at the Last Supper which is one form.
An other form is the Sacrament of Confession. And again, this also comes under mediation of sorts. When Christ said to His Apostles, "whose sins you shall forgive they are forgiven them", He made priests mediators of the confessional, although we believe Christ is present.

lulapilgrim

on Nov 07, 2007

No one else can claim for himself, including the Blessed Mother of Christ, the Mediatorship of redemption or ransom for all. That belongs exclusively to Christ.

No it belongs exclusively to G-D.

Ya, but when you're talking to me or I'm talking to you, Christ IS God.

lulapilgrim

on Nov 07, 2007

unneeded ceremony.

See, that's the point. The High priest offering the sacrifices at the altar for the expiation of all the sins of Israel was "the Law" back then, but undeeded now?

We all have G-Ds ear A Rabbi is no closer to G-d than I am.

I understand this.

lulapilgrim

on Nov 07, 2007

That is a huge "IF" one believes Jesus is the Messiah, I do not.

I know, but there's always hope for you yet!

lulapilgrim

on Nov 07, 2007

Does this help you better understand that Christ is the one Mediator of redemption for all now?

Again you leave out the vast Majority of the worlds population, this again is typical" Jesus is the only way to G-d" NOT!

No, MM. I said that Christ was the ONE Mediatior of Redemption for all, not that Christ was the ONLY Mediator. Big difference.

Anyone can intercede on our behalf to God. Didn't you ask prayers for your nephew Chris? That was you interceding to us on his behalf. All prayers, petitions and requests to God, if asked with a clean heart, are good whether directly or asked through an intercessory mediation.

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