Reprisal of an older article

Published on October 8, 2007 By Moderateman In War on Terror

Definition of torture:

2 entries found for torture.
To select an entry, click on it.
torture[1,noun]torture[2,transitive verb]

Main Entry: 1tor·ture
Pronunciation: 'tor-ch&r
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Late Latin tortura, from Latin tortus, past participle of torquEre to twist; probably akin to Old High German drAhsil turner, Greek atraktos spindle
1 a : anguish of body or mind : AGONY b : something that causes agony or pain
2 : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3 : distortion or over refinement of a meaning or an argument : STRAINING

now please do not make me define anguish and agony cause I will........

again I say for the dense..

Making a room 95 degrees is not TORTURE.... its damn uncomfortable.

Playing loud music (90 decibels} is not Torture is just mind numbing

Making a room cold 40 degrees is not TORTURE... it is very uncomfortable.

Making someone stand in place is NOT TORTURE.

Putting a blindfold on someones head is not torture... its scary period.

I am tired of the left twisting my words so the outcome is as they choose../

for the fainthearted I will now list some torture beware your bleeding heart might rupture.

Slamming slivers of bamboo on fire under your toenails is torture

Pulling your tongue out and cutting it off is torture.... Saddam did this on a constant basis. So do the Terrorists we are fighting and worse.

Cutting someone hands off in stages from the fingers upwards is torture... Saddam also did this. We have proof that the Muslim lunatics do this also.

Gassing someone with chemical agents is torture Saddam did this also

Cutting off someones ears is torture Saddam also did this. We have proof the Muslim Terrorists do this too.

Can any of you name one instance in THIS WAR where we did anything approaching the true definition of torture?

Do any of you have proof that America has done anything besides a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors that we have engaged in any of this kind of horrendous behavior?

Comments (Page 7)

Dr Guy

on Oct 11, 2007

now they cannot due to the court being a little more balanced and they are pissed at this.

Sad and true. During the years when the court leaned left, the right bitched and moaned, but the last I saw, no one was wishing cancer on Ginsberg, and a painful death. Now that the court is more balanced (they would say tilting right), they are coming out of the woodwork and declaring the death of all mankind type of doom and gloom. Even Sodaiho, not a loon on the left (just left leaning), seems to think that all ills of society can be cured by court activism. That was never the intent of the courts, I hope we can prevent it from happening. There is a reason that the founders created 3 co-equal branches of government. Not one overarching one that ruled the other 2.

Dr Guy

on Oct 11, 2007

You seem to distrust the very thing you profess to hold dear, our government, its citizens, a free press, and our constitution.

I'm one who feels BOTH sides have sold out our Constitution. It's about time we take it back!

10 years ago, I would have argued with you. Today, I am sorry to say I agree with you.

Cikomyr

on Oct 11, 2007

Not if I wanted to ADVANCE in the workforce rather than work crappy jobs the rest of my life.

You could have quit nonetheless. Nobody held you in cuff and forced you to stay for months into that crappy jobs, water-boarding you.

Anyway, I'm sorry to see your utter lack of a sense of humour.

Oh, I'm sorry if I do not have a sense of humor when people are joking about torture. About actual torture.

My point is, being forced to stand around is not torture, nor are many of the other things described (for the record, I'm of the opinion that waterboarding IS torture!). How are we SUPPOSED to interrogate these guys, sitting in a barcolounger with a couple of Cuban cigars and a bottle of 20 year old scotch?!?

Then again the joke, stupid. You really think that there is no middle ground between psychological torture and a 4-star hotel?

Cikomyr

on Oct 11, 2007

obviously you have not read the comment section where I mentioned that Kalil Sheik Mohammed the number three man in Al Qaeda broke from water boarding and gave up tons of useful information.

Actually, I said this exactly because of your example.

1 example where it works doesn't make it right. You sounds like Frank Drebin in The Naked Gun 2 1/2:

"In honnesty, I got the last two while parking my car. Luckily, they were drug dealers"

Yhea, you got a lucky shot. Actually, it wasn't a lucky shot, because you actually capture one of the brain of Al-Qaeda.

But torturing field soldiers, found in Afghanistan, is both immoral and ludicrous! What informations would you get out of a lowly field operative of any organisation?

Now, the only thing you get out of it is a perverse sense of satisfaction, a sense of revenge. Psychologists usually agree that this reason is usually *the* reason governement use torture, since the information you get out of it is usually unreliable.

Cikomyr

on Oct 11, 2007

How about this then, you get three terrorist, you take them up in a helicopter, you ask the oldest one a question, just one, when he refuses to answer you just toss him out of the copter, then land where his mangled body is, show it to the other two then take off again, ask the second oldest a question, if he refuses to answer, you toss him out of the copter wrapped in pigskin, you land, show it to the youngest then take off again, by then I am sure you will get your information, without any torture at all. How does that work for you?

Why not another idea: Let's undust the crematorium used by the Nazis, and use that equipment for your example.

That way, it will be even clearer that you are commiting crimes against humanity. I don't care if it's 1 man or 10 000. I don't care if it's a jew or a muslim, a civilian or a terrorist. It's WRONG.

Moderateman

on Oct 11, 2007

Reply By: kingbeePosted: Wednesday, October 10, 2007
you get three terrorist, you take them up in a helicopter, you ask the oldest one a question, just one, when he refuses to answer you just toss him out of the copter, then land where his mangled body is, show it to the other two then take off again, ask the second oldest a question, if he refuses to answer, you toss him out of the copter wrapped in pigskin, you land, show it to the youngest then take off again, by then I am sure you will get your information, without any torture at all. How does that work for you?

just as an aside, am i correct in recalling you describing this technique and suggesting you had reason to believe it was employed in southeast asia (perhaps as comment on a thread shortly after you first arrived at ju)?

would not all three consider this their ticket to martyrdom and dozens of virgins--pig skin or no pig skin?

pig skin, no martydom, and yes this was something done in Vietnam, not by me of course.

Moderateman

on Oct 11, 2007

[

Reply By: ArtysimPosted: Wednesday, October 10, 2007
wow, chastised to the max, and for good reason, from your point of view anyways, I accept this and will not respond in kind.

I do thank you for pointing out what you see as where I have gone wrong and you are right I did ask for one example, you gave it to me and then I trashed it. apologies for that. You responded in good faith and did not deserve it.

Moderateman, I'm speechless! Well not quite. Congrats on keeping your cool though!

In regards to your next point-

Thank you, I can admit being wrong, and I am wrong quite a bit.

quote] think this is called a war crime. It's the same tactic that's been employed by many different armies down through the ages to instill fear of death in the vanquished "kill a few of the bastards to show em' who's in charge!!" Usually, people who do this are called bad guys and history tends to take a dim view of them. But to be fair, definitions are important. May I ask what your definition of a terrorist is? If any old Iraqi decides to take up arms against uniformed U.S forces does that automatically make him a terrorist, or is he an insurgent? If he is an insurgent, should he be treated differently from a terrorist? Because if there is no distinction, that would then mean that if the U.S was invaded and you decided to put up resistance to the invading army you would then be a terrorist as well! (in the eyes of the occupying army)

It is a war crime and I was just fucking around some, yank a chain or two.

Moderateman

on Oct 11, 2007

Reply By: CikomyrPosted: Thursday, October 11, 2007

would you care to define it, instead of skirting the issue.

Moderateman

on Oct 11, 2007

Reply By: Dr GuyPosted: Thursday, October 11, 2007
now they cannot due to the court being a little more balanced and they are pissed at this.

Sad and true. During the years when the court leaned left, the right bitched and moaned, but the last I saw, no one was wishing cancer on Ginsberg, and a painful death. Now that the court is more balanced (they would say tilting right), they are coming out of the woodwork and declaring the death of all mankind type of doom and gloom. Even Sodaiho, not a loon on the left (just left leaning), seems to think that all ills of society can be cured by court activism. That was never the intent of the courts, I hope we can prevent it from happening. There is a reason that the founders created 3 co-equal branches of government. Not one overarching

to the left, if you are not totally with them, you are against them. period, no middle ground.

100

Moderateman

on Oct 11, 2007

But torturing field soldiers, found in Afghanistan, is both immoral and ludicrous! What informations would you get out of a lowly field operative of any organisation?

Now, the only thing you get out of it is a perverse sense of satisfaction, a sense of revenge. Psychologists usually agree that this reason is usually *the* reason governement use torture, since the information you get out of it is usually unreliable.

Reply By: CikomyrPosted: Thursday, October 11, 2007

Again with the torturing everyone, so far I have been shown proof of one or two being tortured, how does that translate to everyone?

101

Gideon MacLeish

on Oct 11, 2007

Then again the joke, stupid.

Ahh, yes, your intellectual prowess is revealed, cikomyr! Good to hear from you, as it's always great to have a battle of wits against the unarmed.

Of COURSE there is a difference between the two, cikomyr, however, as I and others have pointed out, MOST instances of true torture that have been discovered have resulted in the arrests of the offenders. We still have work to do (as I said, Iam in 100% agreement on the issue of waterboarding), but the fact we even KNOW about some of these things says a lot.

You won't gain traction by calling everyone who comes to the debate but disagrees with you "stupid", though!

102

Cikomyr

on Oct 11, 2007

You won't gain traction by calling everyone who comes to the debate but disagrees with you "stupid", though!

Again you go way over the edge. I do not call everyone who comes to the debate but disagree with me "stupid", I call those who associates "non-torture" with "Cigars & Scotch" to try to advance their point trough stupid jokes.

103

Jythier

on Oct 11, 2007

If we treated them as we do people in a certain county jail, we would be accused of torturing them.

104

Cikomyr

on Oct 11, 2007

If we treated them as we do people in a certain county jail, we would be accused of torturing them.

Then it's the county jail that has a problem(!)

105

Moderateman

on Oct 11, 2007

Reply By: CikomyrPosted: Thursday, October 11, 2007

I AM still waiting for you to define what is ok to use to interrogate terrorists to gather important information, I already know what you do not approve of, but how about telling us what you think is alright to do to break a hardened terrorists?

Welcome Guest! Please take the time to register with us.
There are many great features available to you once you register, including:

Richer content, access to many features that are disabled for guests like commenting on the forums.
Access to a great community, with a massive database of many, many areas of interest.
Access to contests & subscription offers like exclusive emails.
It's simple, and FREE!