Reprisal of an older article

Published on October 8, 2007 By Moderateman In War on Terror

Definition of torture:

2 entries found for torture.
To select an entry, click on it.
torture[1,noun]torture[2,transitive verb]

Main Entry: 1tor·ture
Pronunciation: 'tor-ch&r
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Late Latin tortura, from Latin tortus, past participle of torquEre to twist; probably akin to Old High German drAhsil turner, Greek atraktos spindle
1 a : anguish of body or mind : AGONY b : something that causes agony or pain
2 : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3 : distortion or over refinement of a meaning or an argument : STRAINING

now please do not make me define anguish and agony cause I will........

again I say for the dense..

Making a room 95 degrees is not TORTURE.... its damn uncomfortable.

Playing loud music (90 decibels} is not Torture is just mind numbing

Making a room cold 40 degrees is not TORTURE... it is very uncomfortable.

Making someone stand in place is NOT TORTURE.

Putting a blindfold on someones head is not torture... its scary period.

I am tired of the left twisting my words so the outcome is as they choose../

for the fainthearted I will now list some torture beware your bleeding heart might rupture.

Slamming slivers of bamboo on fire under your toenails is torture

Pulling your tongue out and cutting it off is torture.... Saddam did this on a constant basis. So do the Terrorists we are fighting and worse.

Cutting someone hands off in stages from the fingers upwards is torture... Saddam also did this. We have proof that the Muslim lunatics do this also.

Gassing someone with chemical agents is torture Saddam did this also

Cutting off someones ears is torture Saddam also did this. We have proof the Muslim Terrorists do this too.

Can any of you name one instance in THIS WAR where we did anything approaching the true definition of torture?

Do any of you have proof that America has done anything besides a bunch of unsubstantiated rumors that we have engaged in any of this kind of horrendous behavior?

Comments (Page 5)

Dr Guy

on Oct 10, 2007

If "we" believed he was a suspected "terrorist" why not arrest him and try him in a court of law?

The 10 cent reason is simple. As he was not arrested in the US, he is not subject to the laws of the US. If indeed he was suspected of being a terrorist, he was captured in a war zone, making himn either a POW (doubtful from the suspects account) or an non uniformed enemy combatant - i.e. a spy. IN the latter case, the "legal" thing to do would have been to shoot him.

But dead men tell no tales, so he could not have been shot, right?

And finally, there is a HUGE misconception about what the role of the Supreme court is (propigated by the democrats looking to legislate from the bench what they cannot pass through congress). They are not there to MAKE law, They are there to determine the rules of the laws on the books. As such, unless there is a procedural error in a lower court ruling, there is nothing they can do. Notice (if you read further), that they did not RULE on his case, only refused to hear it. In other words, they found no procedural errors in any of the lower court rulings.

Dr Guy

on Oct 10, 2007

This is not stuff that's easily forgotten, but scars someone for life. In my opinion, mentally scarring someone for life qualifies as

1 a : anguish of body or mind : AGONY b : something that causes agony or pain

Agree/disagree??

Good overall answer, but I would disagree. Normal life involves a lot of "mental anguish" and unless one is a psychopath to begin with, the human psyche is usually made of sterner stuff and can deal with it and not leave PST for everyone that has ever been called a stupid jerk by an irate driver.

That is not to say that there is no such thing as mental torture - far from it. But childish pranks by juveniles are not it. I suspect most here have at one point in their life been the victim of a bully (and that is really all this is), and not had their life come to an end because of it.

I will also add that while I do not have a primer on what exactly is and is not torture, I will say that the screams of torture in most of these cases only serve to cheapen the true torture and desensitize people for when the real stuff happens. It is the "Boy who Cried Wolf" syndrome. Yell it enough times when it is not true, and no one is going to listen when it is true.

lulapilgrim

on Oct 10, 2007

I will also add that while I do not have a primer on what exactly is and is not torture, I will say that the screams of torture in most of these cases only serve to cheapen the true torture and desensitize people for when the real stuff happens. It is the "Boy who Cried Wolf" syndrome. Yell it enough times when it is not true, and no one is going to listen when it is true.

Doc, as I said before, it comes down to terms..those who govern the culture's language govern the culture.

Gideon MacLeish

on Oct 10, 2007

Seriously, what harm could come from making a guy stand around for a while, right? This is still torture in my opinion, but a different kind of torture that has been marketed to the people as a harmless tool that's helping freedoms' march in the war on terror (supposedly).

Then I have had many bosses who have tortured me!

Adventure-Dude

on Oct 10, 2007

Then I have had many bosses who have tortured me!

lol

Cikomyr

on Oct 10, 2007

Then I have had many bosses who have tortured me!

You have been paid for it.
You could quit when you wanted.

Stop comparing apples with oranges.

Jewbu

on Oct 10, 2007

Dr. Guy, He was arrested in Macedonia, not a war zone. He was turned over to US authorities, but was a German national, so he was neither a POW or an enemy combatant. If he were a spy, the legal thing would have been to try him in a court of law.

Be well.

Jewbu

on Oct 10, 2007

As an aside, why is it that conservatives are all about Law and Order on the cop side, but all squirmy about it on the court side?

see ya

Dr Guy

on Oct 10, 2007

If he were a spy, the legal thing would have been to try him in a court of law.

The spy analogy was only to show what enemy combatants are eligible for when not wearing a suit of a nation. And unless they are a citizen of your nation, and caught doing the spying in their home country, there is no legal recourse.

As for the blanket statement of conservatives, you missed every point made. No one is trying to deny any criminal their day in court. But subverting the law for a warm fuzzy feeling is not exactly upholding the law, now is it?

The courts are not for every whinger around the world to have their cry in court. it is to adjudicate the guilt or innocence of individuals caught breaking the law of the land, here in this country. We cannot and should not use them to give a platform for every one who seeks to complain about an injustice done in another country. If done by american citizens, even then they should be prosecuted by the laws of the land the act was done in, not the US.

Your apparent view of courts is that they should be the only law of the land. Thankfully we have not gone that far yet.

Adventure-Dude

on Oct 10, 2007

He was turned over to US authorities, but was a German national, so he was neither a POW or an enemy combatant. If he were a spy, the legal thing would have been to try him in a court of law.

Sodaiho,

I agree with you here. The problem is we only know what NY Times published.

If this actually happened, there was found no connection, then two things should happen: The innocent should be compensated and the guilty should be punished.

Adventure-Dude

on Oct 10, 2007

If done by american citizens, even then they should be prosecuted by the laws of the land the act was done in, not the US.

This was not the case in Kyrgyzstan, Doc. This would be more based upon the relations of the US and the country. In Kyrgyzstan the soldier that killed a truck driver in Kyrgyzstan was under diplomatic immunity. He could not be prosecuted in KG, he was investigated by the US authority (in this case military).

Gideon MacLeish

on Oct 10, 2007

You could quit when you wanted.

Not if I wanted to ADVANCE in the workforce rather than work crappy jobs the rest of my life.

Anyway, I'm sorry to see your utter lack of a sense of humour. My point is, being forced to stand around is not torture, nor are many of the other things described (for the record, I'm of the opinion that waterboarding IS torture!). How are we SUPPOSED to interrogate these guys, sitting in a barcolounger with a couple of Cuban cigars and a bottle of 20 year old scotch?!?

I want the books open on our government. I want us to take a hard look and ASK whether our government is, indeed, torturing suspects. But I will NOT come to that conclusion based on heresay and exaggerations!

Dr Guy

on Oct 10, 2007

under diplomatic immunity

That is a whole nother sticky wicket, and yes, an exception to my statement.

Moderateman

on Oct 10, 2007

Gideon MacLeishOctober 10, 2007 13:31:12

(for the record, I'm of the opinion that waterboarding IS torture!). How are we SUPPOSED to interrogate these guys, sitting in a barcolounger with a couple of Cuban cigars and a bottle of 20 year old scotch?!?

I want the books open on our government. I want us to take a hard look and ASK whether our government is, indeed, torturing suspects. But I will NOT come to that conclusion based on heresay and exaggerations!

this is the crux of my little article, what does the left expect us to do to get information? ask nicely? "oh please Mr. terrorist that hates all things western and not Muslim please please tell us your next plan to kill us?"

Moderateman

on Oct 10, 2007

CikomyrOctober 10, 2007 00:06:58

The problem is, even if you cite 1 example where torture actually proved useful, it mostly is not.

obviously you have not read the comment section where I mentioned that Kalil Sheik Mohammed the number three man in Al Qaeda broke from water boarding and gave up tons of useful information.

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