#16 by Dr. Guy Monday, July 25, 2005

MM, it is called Spin, and is usually reserved for politicians. And others who have to justify their lies.

yep I remember when the term "spin doctors" came into vogue.

Dude, you did the very thing in this article.' Myrrander, you are spot on. Picking just one example re. the London shooting ... MM failed to mention that the police were in plain clothes

Okay, he forgot to mention it. Now for a question. "Why" should it matter if they were in plain clothes? When police id themselves and tell you to "HALT", and they're in plain clothes does that mean I don't have to listen to them?

Given the "exact" same circumstances in "most" other counties of the world, I expect that the same thing would happen.

'Okay, he forgot to mention it. Now for a question. "Why" should it matter if they were in plain clothes? When police id themselves and tell you to "HALT", and they're in plain clothes does that mean I don't have to listen to them?'

MM's response to my post was this: 'ok, busted doing what I complained about, fair enough.' That, to me, has both good grace and style.

Your response, on the other hand drmiler, appears to miss the point - this being that we need to acknowledge that what you refer to as 'the "exact" same circumstances' are neither completely known nor beyond contention. We have been told that the police identified themselves. That is a fact. Just as yesterday it was a fact that they shot him 5 times, whereas today it is a fact that they shot him 8 times.

'Okay, he forgot to mention it. Now for a question. "Why" should it matter if they were in plain clothes? When police id themselves and tell you to "HALT", and they're in plain clothes does that mean I don't have to listen to them?' MM's response to my post was this: 'ok, busted doing what I complained about, fair enough.' That, to me, has both good grace and style. Your response, on the other hand drmiler, appears to miss the point - this being that we need to acknowledge that what you refer to as 'the "exact" same circumstances' are neither completely known nor beyond contention. We have been told that the police identified themselves. That is a fact. Just as yesterday it was a fact that they shot him 5 times, whereas today it is a fact that they shot him 8 times.

No, I believe your missing the point. Is "anyone" contesting the fact that the police identified themselves? 5 times or 8 times. What's the difference? He's just as dead since they were all head shots. From CNN:

De Menezes on Friday left a south London apartment building that had been under surveillance as part of the investigation into Thursday's attempted bombings. Officers followed him to the Stockwell Underground station. The man's "clothing and suspicious behavior at the station added to their suspicions," a police statement said. He challenged police and refused to obey orders before he was shot and killed Friday morning, Blair said Friday. A witness to the shooting, Mark Whitby, said he was sitting on the train when "I heard a lot of shouting." "I saw a chap run on to the train," Whitby said. "He was running so fast he half sort of tripped. He was being pursued by three guys. One had a black handgun in his hand."

From BBC:

1: Witnesses report seeing up to 20 plain clothes police officers chase a man into Stockwell Tube station from the street 2: One person says the man vaulted the automatic ticket barriers as he made his way to the platforms 3: The most direct route is via this escalator or the staircase that sits alongside it 4: Police challenge the man but he apparently refuses to obey instructions and after running onto a northbound Northern line train, he is shot dead

And btw...."where" did you see he was shot 8 times. That in itself is "highly" unlikely. There wouldn't be enough left of his head to ID 8 shots. Let alone enough to shoot at. Especially since they use at a minimum, a 9mm firearm with hollowpoint rounds

Reply By: Furry CanaryPosted: Tuesday, July 26, 2005

MM's response to my post was this: 'ok, busted doing what I complained about, fair enough.' That, to me, has both good grace and style.

yikes, be still my heart, da furry one said something nice about me, this is surely one of the seven signs of the end of the world, lol

Reply By: drmilerPosted: Tuesday, July 26, 2005

And btw...."where" did you see he was shot 8 times. That in itself is "highly" unlikely. There wouldn't be enough left of his head to ID 8 shots. Let alone enough to shoot at. Especially since they use at a minimum, a 9mm firearm with hollowpoint rounds

exactly, As I have said you might not get shot here in america MIGHT NOT, but if you disobey a lawful command from the police you better be prepared to pay the piper.

I will respond to Myrrander trolling me out here

the Espionage Act of 1917, look into it, greywar

And I'd like to pretend you died, Republicanman, but corpses talking idiocy are still idiots...Here's another five points, whore...you got busted on what you complained about? Every blog you write is exactly what you complained about. So STFU about other bloggers, you're no prime example of altruistic beauty or something. Your writing is dishonest and you complain about dishonesty.

And pay no attention to Myrr, dear, he's just feeling pissy today because I outed his best friend, dabe.

Actually, I had no idea you had done it. Good job, Inspector Clouseau, ask Brandie how long we've all known that.

And btw...."where" did you see he was shot 8 times

It was widely reported in UK papers, yesterday, as it was told to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, who began an inquest into the shooting.

As for the topic--this isn't a news site, it's a blog site, where people, necessarily slant their articles to reflect their own reality. If you want news, read the BBC, CNN, FOX, whatever--but if you are reading JU, be prepared to get someone's opinion on the facts rather than simply the facts.

Reply By: MyrranderPosted: Tuesday, July 26, 2005I will respond to Myrrander trolling me out herethe Espionage Act of 1917, look into it, greywarAnd I'd like to pretend you died, Republicanman, but corpses talking idiocy are still idiots...Here's another five points, whore...you got busted on what you complained about? Every blog you write is exactly what you complained about. So STFU about other bloggers, you're no prime example of altruistic beauty or something. Your writing is dishonest and you complain about dishonesty.

do you even know how to be kind?

Reply By: shadesofgreyPosted: Tuesday, July 26, 2005And btw...."where" did you see he was shot 8 timesIt was widely reported in UK papers, yesterday, as it was told to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, who began an inquest into the shooting.As for the topic--this isn't a news site, it's a blog site, where people, necessarily slant their articles to reflect their own reality. If you want news, read the BBC, CNN, FOX, whatever--but if you are reading JU, be prepared to get someone's opinion on the facts rather than simply the facts.

Is there really a difference between being shot in heaD 5 TIMES AND 8 TIMES? slanting is not a bad thing but misleading intentionally is.

As for the topic--this isn't a news site, it's a blog site, where people, necessarily slant their articles to reflect their own reality. If you want news, read the BBC, CNN, FOX, whatever--but if you are reading JU, be prepared to get someone's opinion on the facts rather than simply the facts.

Yep! 

Still mellowing out?  in this heat?

And btw...."where" did you see he was shot 8 times It was widely reported in UK papers, yesterday, as it was told to the Independent Police Complaints Commission, who began an inquest into the shooting.

You are missing the point shades. There is no physical way of knowing how many head shots there were. Without exception everyone admits all rounds fired were "head shots". After 4 or 5 rounds there would NOT be enough left to verify that there were 8 shots. That tells me that whoever is telling the papers that info is stretching the truth! And btw I could find no mention of this in any major British publication available on the web.

#29 by Dr. Guy Wednesday, July 27, 2005

As for the topic--this isn't a news site, it's a blog site, where people, necessarily slant their articles to reflect their own reality. If you want news, read the BBC, CNN, FOX, whatever--but if you are reading JU, be prepared to get someone's opinion on the facts rather than simply the facts. Yep! Still mellowing out? in this heat?

ya mean joeuser is NOT a real news orginazation?

I love this one...posted earlier; I need JU's Help.... We are Ju's Mod...should we help him?

OFF Subject: Yeah, if you're referencing my bit, i should have had a different title...i was a bit stupid on that part...

--MM, insightful article...