They will kill you while you are awake, in your sleep, while at work, in school, at play, while at home eating with your family AND smile and laugh while doing it in the cruelest way possible.

But you that want them to have their day in court, maybe while they are waiting for trial you can invite them over for a nice dinner with the wife and kids.

The facts don't matter to them.  They set up an impossible standard, then blast Prs. Bush for not meeting it.  If they had their way, the Nazis in WWII would have been returned to Germany to kill more Americans.  When it was learned what was going on in the concetration camps, they would have just said, "They're Nazis... Duh!"  Then turned around and blasted the U.S. for not liberating the camps sooner.

Man I sure miss you ted, you sure know how to cut to the chase of things. It goes with my saying of "since when do facts matter to liberals"" we never want to confuse issues with facts" These people are monsters and some Americans are worried about how we are treating them. For GODS sake they are being treated better here than they were at home, they are cleaner, better fed, healthier and SAFER, but don't let simple facts like that get in the way of "FREE THE TERRORISTS MOVEMENT"

Thanks for the excellent article MM.  The thoughts you've expressed are pretty much exactly what I would say myself.

Most of the Gitmo inmates were released without charge. They were thus by definition 'innocent' and probably unlikely to be as vicious as you claim. If they were guilty of ripping babies out of western women's wombs the US government is criminally negligent. If they're not then you don't know what you're talking about.

If they are prisoners of war, then the are subject to the Geneva Convention. The administration categorized the detainees as unlawful enemy combatants, not POW's, to sidestep the Geneva Convention. The administration argued that only state sponsored lawful fighters are entitled to human rights obligations. There have been many allegations of torture at Guantanamo Bay. Torture is wrong even if we call it enhanced interogation techniques.

Yes, some of these detainees are terrorists. I am sure that most of them hate Americans even more after being held for six years. Most of the detainees were not arrested on the battlefield. In Afganistan, warlords used the US dragnets to get rid of people they didn't like and got paid large rewards for naming these people. Many prisoners have been released including two boys, aged 8 and 10. I don't care how much pressure is put on the U.S. government, I don't believe they would release these detainees if they were truly a threat to our country.

We need to reclaim our moral authority as a country. We can't just throw out the rule of law depending on who are enemies are and whether they fight fair. I am not pro-terrorist, I just don't think we should hold them indefinately without charge. I don't really care if they are tried through a military tribunal or the federal legal system. The government needs to figure out how they are going to handle these prisoners and get on with it. If they are found guilty of war crimes, then lock them up and throw away the key and don't look back.

They were thus by definition 'innocent' and probably unlikely to be as vicious as you claim.

Actually not. There are plenty of criminals walking on U.S. streets today who were not charged with a crime for a variety of reasons, but they are still dangerous people. We should be looking at the prisoners who were released and have gone right back to doing what they did before.....terrorism.

locamama, i have read a lot of your writing, and have a lot of respect for you.
i know that i am new around here, but so far, no-one seems to mind me jumping right in. and thank you all for that.

having said that, i just have to ask; who cares if the detainees hate america? who cares if they hate us more now? before 9-11, they hated us, and i didn't even know it. (i freely admit that i had no idea what was going on in our world till those planes hit those buildings). my point is, them hating shouldn't really matter. it shouldn't play in to how we handle this problem. i've found, in my own experience, that the best way to handle most things is to handle them quickly and un-emotionally. we have done neither in iraq.

i truly believe that if we had just done this war at full speed and gotten it over with, we would already be at the rebuild stage. most of our troops would be home, my brother, hbw included, and we would be hearing all about the good works going on over there. the violence would be still there of course, but much less. it would be secondary news.

the liberals who say we can't win this war are the reason we can't win this war.
it happened a long time ago in vietnam, too. hippies and nay-sayers made it impossible to fight effectively. we are having the same problem now. why do we have to explain ourselves? the whole world saw what happened on 9-11. why isn't that enough reason to solve this problem? all the liberals ask "what does winning mean?" that is a distraction. the question will answer itself when it happens. america can win this and make terrorism a dormant problem without going too far. its what we do. we are not a conquering nation. if we where, most of europe would be ours. canada and mexico would be a weekend war. i wouldn't have spent $71.45 to fill up my truck before work today.

try to worry about us first. worry about our troops. worry about you and your family. if you don't, and that really becomes the prevailing attitude in this country, then we will let the crazies in the world take over this country, and there will be no-one, no country left who cares enough about the rest of the world. to do all of the good things we do around the world.

america is far from perfect. i could go on for hours about the problems i have with her, from abortion to the death penalty. from politicians to other politicians. but we are the country that gives the most around the world. while other countries scream that we aren't doing enough, we don't get childish, we don't pull back. we give more.

i want to be able to give more forever. we cannot last if we don't take care of ourselves. we can't let the laws go to hell to protect a few detainees. or illegal immigrants for that matter. we have to be able to hurt peoples feelings, and crack a few eggs to make this omelette. we have to be strong in order to be kind. when america is gone, so is a lot of the charity and kindness in the world.

spock (the vulcan, not the doc) said it best.
"the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one."

this is why our soldiers are there. they get it. i do get to talk to and know a lot of soldiers before they go, and when they come home. its part of my job. they all have a different take on it, but it mostly boils down to the same. let us do our thing, and get home. don't send us there to tie our hands.
i believe we are stronger and safer on the offense.

side stepping the geneva convention is a good idea, in this case. it gives us time to evaluate the problem. if bush just said that these dudes where prisoners of war, he could let them rot until the end. by classifying them as enemy combatants, it helps force the issue. our gov. really wants to have this problem solved. they want it solved before the war is over. thats how it seems to me.

thanks for the read double m

oh, and about moral authority.
first lets get the world to take us seriously again. we can't be the authority on anything until we get a little respect. not long after 9-11, north korea pulled back from the dmz for the first time in 30 or so years. they were scared that america was going to go nuts on the whole world. six years later they are thumbing their noses at us.

they were scared because they thought we were going to respond with fury. the whole world held their breath, waiting to see how much trouble they were all in. its like one kid causing trouble and all the kids being scared of when their father is coming home.

think of it. at the beginning of this the whole world knew what we were capable of.
the whole world was scared.
now, america is the world's bitch. no-one has any respect left for us, because we seem to not know how to handle a seemingly simple problem. big bad super-power can't even fight off cavemen who are armed with cold war weapons and sticks and stones. caves to hide in.

the way back to being the moral authority, is to make them pay attention. nobody listens to the wimp. they follow a leader.

i am a leader. one in a country full. why can't we gird em' up and beat this thing?

Good job, MM, this looks to be the theme of the month. I have already commented on a couple of other threads in the same vein, so here I will just say , "YEAH!"

i truly believe that if we had just done this war at full speed and gotten it over with, we would already be at the rebuild stage

Be careful TR, talking like that got me accused of advocating genocide and baby burning.

i'm a consevative who hates the death penalty. i don't like the thought of killing. like i said, i have a brother over there right now. i want him to come home safely. right now there is no bigger desire in my life.

war is a terrible thing. we all know it. i would never advocate baby burning or anything like that.

its hard to know what to do, but it seems to me that there would be less death overall if we just bombed from the sky and were done with it, than the slow trickle of deaths (our and theirs) everyday. its a terrible thing, but i'd rather kill mostly them and keep our guys safe. maybe its wrong, but i am not afraid of being wrong, thats just how i feel.

i don't pray much anymore, but i pray for my brother and all our guys everyday.
its never crossed my mind to pray for the iraqis. we are lucky to be who we are i guess. they aren't so lucky. its cold, i know.

If our goal were just to kill Iraquis that would work. Our goal is to kill the enemy, the insurgents, not the Iraqui civilians. That was Rummy's plan at the start of the war, a shock and awe bombing campaign, and that was supposed to be it. It didn't work out that way.



I don't care if the terrorists hate us. I care if some man who was not a terrorist and was in the wrong place at the wrong time got rounded up, sent to Gitmo, then released and goes home a terrorist.



It's not just liberals saying that anymore. Colin Powell said there cannot be only a military victory in Iraq. Republican Senators Lugar and Voinivich said that the buildup wasn't working and U.S. military presence in Iraq should be trimmed back.

Reply By: terpfan1980Posted: Sunday, July 01, 2007 Thanks for the excellent article MM. The thoughts you've expressed are pretty much exactly what I would say myself.

thank you terp, I am getting darned tired of the bleeding hearts bleeding for everyone but the American troops fighting so the bleeding hearts can be BLEEDING HEARTS with no fear of reprisal!

You don't "quite" seem to get it, do you? They are in Gitmo because THEY WERE CAUGHT ON THE BATTLEFIELD, SHOOTING AT OUR SOLDIERS! Not just because they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.