MM posts:

Well, Christianity was the new revealed religion and that's definitely what Christ established while here on earth..the Book of Acts, for one, tells us all about it. Besides biblical Judaism, Christianity is the only other revealed religion of God.

St.Luke who wrote Acts also wrote the third Gospel and that tells us plenty about "the Church" that CHrist established. "The church" is the Catholic Church. The word "Catholic" which is derived from the Greek, "Katholokis" meaning "universal" is generally believed to have been first used by St. Ignatius of Antioch (35-107 AD) in a letter to the Smyrmeans. He is one of the Fathers of the Church. Originally, Catholic referred to the Chruch itself, but eventually came to mean members of that Chruch as well. The Church at ANtioch was, as we have just discussed, where the followers of Christ were being called "Christians". The Chruch at ANtioch was established by those Christians who fled during the persecutions in Jerusalem after the death of Christ, and the death of St.Stephen, the first martyr for the Faith.(also found in Acts.) The term "Catholic" is regarded as one of the marks of the Chruch, as contained in both the Nicene and Apostle's Creed: "One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church".

The Book of Acts is an indispensible source of documentation about the development of the Christian faith and of the life of the Church established by Christ. In it, we are shown the Church as the instrument of God uses to fulfill the Old testament promises. The Church is then the true Israel, a new people, a world-wide community of people joined in union with the one same faith and baptism with the focus of worship by the 'breaking of bread' that is, the Eucharistic sacrifice, which His disciples already celebrate on Sunday.

The doctrinal content of Acts describes the way the Infant Church was structured, the life of the early Christians, their life centering on prayer, the Eucharist, and the Apostle's teachings from the day of Pentecost and the building up of the kingdom of GOd on earth.

KFC POSTS:

When Catholics say 'the Church' or such in Scripture, they mean the Catholic Church. The Chruch is the visible society of the validly Bpatized faithful, united together in one body by the profession of the same Christian faith of Christ, by the participation of the same Sacrifice, and the same 7 Sacraments, under the authority of the Pope and bishops in union with him.

The Catholic Church is the one founded by Our Lord and most clearly described in Scripture.

KFC, when you say "the Church" is believers or followers of Christ, you are mistaken and merely repeating (you know who--hint: his initials are ML)-----his line.

Also consider this.

Do 'believers' of every Protestant denomination out there, act as did the first Christians did in Apostolic times? Do they go to Confession and practice Penance? Do they have the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? What do Protestants do with the spiritual power promised by Christ? I'm speaking of the 'binding and loosing' of sins. Christ said, "Receive ye the Holy Ghost. Whose sins you shall forgive , they are forgiven them; and whose sins you shall retain, they are retained."

And this: Christ said that His Church(singular) would be in the world all days from His time until the end of the world. But where were the thousands of Protestant churches(plural)before the 15th century? Christ certainly was not the founder of any of those churches.

I see NONE of this in scripture. Christ was sacrificed ONCE. That's all that was needed. Across the world Christ is being re-sacrificed at least 200,000 times a day by the Catholics and to a Protestant, it's a horrific practice. A priest is summoning Christ down by his power as a priest and calling Christ back down to the altar...(so says the Italian Missionary I met last week).

This is why I told you to read the book of Hebrews a while back.



you just can't seem to grasp this...I can tell by your questioning. Church is singular...yes. It's not denomination. He's not talking CC. The plurality of churches you're talking here is denominations of which the Catholic was the first one started. The Protestants churches came out of HER yes. But Christ's true church is made up of believers coming out of all the diff denominations to form ONE church. The Catholic church was very powerful and political. There was no way they would allow any other denomination to start up. Any who tried, died including whole groups of people. There were secret societies meeting all over the place and Scotland for one has a great history of this.



Yes, they do and I say they are mistaken. It's not about denomination. Christ did not set up a particular group. Those that follow him are the church and you don't have to go to the CC to do this, nor any other religion. You are a cradle Catholic...it's what you've been taught.

KFC, if this were true I can understand and agree this would be a horrific practice, but it isn't. You must totally misunderstand the Holy Mass to say that Christ is "re-crucified".

Did you get the figure 200,000 times a day from the Italian missionary? It may be much more than that. Mass is celebrated perpetually around the world and the Mass is the fulfillment of the prophet Malachais. After foretelling the rejection of the Jewish priesthood, Malachais predicted a new sacrifice to be offered in every place. "From the rising sun even to the going down, my name is great among the Gentiles: and in every place there is a sacrifice and there is offered to my name a clean oblation."
1:10-11.

More later.

well then ex Priests are wrong too. I've heard this by the clergy that have left the CC. They say the same thing as this Italian missionary. I also had a dear friend who left the CC in her 50's. She's 100% Italian and a cradle Catholic as is the whole family. She told me the same thing. Are they all wrong? At the time she even gave me what everything stood for and I was speechless. I didn' know this.



Your taking this scripture and turning it into ceremonial worship of the CC reminds me of the JW's who take the "you will be my witnesses" in Isaiah as meaning them specifically. Aterall their name does have "witness" attached so it must be so.

Malachi was startling his readership here. This was a shock statement to them. Malachi suddenly announced that God would indeed triumph with or without the obedience of the Jews. Look at v5. God would be magnified even beyond the borders of Israel. Gasp...went the Jews. Incense and offerings will be offered up in "every place" would be a shock to them that believed only in Jerusalem were they to offer sacrifices and burn incense before God.

Nowhwere in scripture is it given to the Church to do sacrifices or burn insence as it was given to the Jews under the Mosiac law. The only offering we're told is to offer ourselves up to God. Die to self, live for Christ sort of thing.

The term incense actually referred, no doubt, to the altar of incense and was symbolic of the saints' prayers constantly rising to God. Malachi is showing that God's name and kingdom will be announced over all the earth, not just in and around Jerusalem. That's what the great commission was all about.

Wow when you two {lula and KFC} get going, you guys really get going! and know yer stuff too!!

Makes me feel kinda small reading the works of you guys, but I also feel like I am getting a free education.

not much to tell, all Jewish males upon reaching 13 years of age, go through the rites of manhood, declaring before GOD, his rabbi, his congregation, his mother and father he is now a man, the ceremony is called bar mitzvah

Come on Now friends and foes, 3 more comments and I have 100, my bench mark for a good showing.

Oh you are funny!!!

My help is on the way, I'm planning to respond to KFC's # 94. That should get a few more comments---EASILY!!!

very cool lula, thanx

ha! But I am here for #100! Congrats MM. We did it again!

LULA POSTS:

KFC POSTS:

LULA POSTS:

Again, KFC, I must say that you and all those to whom you talked with about this must totally misunderstand the Holy Mass to say or think that Christ is " re-crucified ". Hopefully, after this explanation----in which I tell you what things stand for, with biblical back up which I know is important to you----you’ll be better able to understand and perhaps set those folks straight.

The teaching of the Holy Mass was spelled out by St. Paul in his discussion of the Holy Eucharist in Corinthians 11: 23-26 and by the whole tenor of St.John 6, the chapter where the Holy Eucharist is first promised by Christ, Himself.

St.Paul to the Corinthians---- “ For I received from the Lord what I also delivered to you, that the Lord Jesus on the night He was betrayed took bread, and when He had given thanks , He broke it and said, 'This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of Me.' In the same way also the cup after supper, saying, 'This cup is the covenant in My Blood. Do this as often as you drink it, in remembrance of Me.' 26 For as often as you eat this Bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the Lord’s death until He comes."


The Catholic Church specifically says Christ does not die again that His death is indeed once for all. Having said that does not contradict the doctrine of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. So, once more, the Sacrifice of the Holy Mass is not a re-Crucification of Christ. He does not suffer and die again. Yet, it’s more than a mere memorial service. The following is a quote from John J. O’Brien in his book, Faith pg. 304 in which he explains it very nicely.

“ The manner in which the sacrifices are offered is alone different: on the Cross Christ really shed His Blood and was really slain. In the Mass, there is no real shedding of blood, no real death, but the separate consecration of the bread and of the wine symbolizes the separation of the Body and Blood of Christ and thus symbolizes His death upon the Cross. The Mass is the renewal and perpetuation of the sacrifice of the Cross in the sense that it offers anew to God the victim of Calvary and thus commemorates the sacrifice of the Cross, reenacts it symbolically and mystically, and applies the fruits of Christ’s death upon the Cross to individual human souls. All the efficacy of the Mass is derived from the Sacrifice of Calvary.”



The Old Testament predicted that Christ would offer a true sacrifice to God in bread and wine--that He would use those elements. We read in Genesis 14:18, that Melchisedech, the king of Salem and a priest, offered sacrifice under the form of bread and wine. Psalm 109 (110) predicted Christ would be a priest “ according to the order of Melchisedech ”, that is, offering a sacrifice in bread and wine. We must then look for some sacrifice other than Calvary, since it was not under the form of bread and wine. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass fits the bill.


The prophet, Malachais, predicted a new sacrifice would be offered in every place. “ From the rising sun even to the going down, my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place there is a sacrifice and there is offered to my name a clean oblation. ” KFC, note that he speaks of one sacrifice, not many sacrifices, but one that is offered everywhere. The Sacrifice of Calvary took place in one place only. We must look for a sacrifice apart from Calvary, one that is given under the form of bread and wine. Only the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass meets the requirements.

In 1:10-11, Malachais foretells the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, the unbloody Sacrifice of the Body and Blood of Jesus. The “clean oblation” is Christ, Himself, in the form of the “Bread of Life” which He first declared at the synagogue in Capharnum, St.John 6: 47-59. There and then, Our Lord promised to give His disciples His Flesh to eat and His Blood to drink. Read St.Matt. 26: 26-29; St.Mark 14:22-26 and St.Luke 22: 19-20 and you will see that a year later, Jesus fulfilled His promise.

The sequence of events are as follows: After sunset on Thursday, the vigil of the Pasch, which fell on Friday, Our Lord ate the typical Paschal lamb with His Apostles. After the Paschal feast, He rose and washed the disciples’ feet, and then sat down again at the table and instituted the most Holy Eucharist and the sacrifice of the Mass at the Last Supper. He therefore took bread in His holy and venerable Hands, and raising His Eyes to heaven, He blessed the bread, broke it, and gave it to His Apostles, saying: “ Take ye and eat, this is My Body which is given for you; do this for a commemoration of Me.” In like manner, taking the chalice, He gave thanks, and blessed it, saying: “ Drink ye all of this. For this is My Blood of the New Testament, which shall be shed for many, for the remission of sins.”

“bread” ------ The unleavened, wheaten bread, which alone could be used for the Pasch. This bread was made in the form of cakes and was broken, not cut. The Jews called it ‘Mazzah”
(sweetness).
“This” ---- What I am now holding in my hands and handing to you.
“Given” ---- or sacrificed for you.
“do this” -----What I have just done.
“for a commemoration” --- “to show forth the death of the Lord till He come” 1Cor. 11:26.
“Drink ye all” --- Our Lord says expressly, “drink ye all”, for He handed it to one only, and this one had to pass it on. All were to drink out of the one chalice, as was customary at the Paschal feast.
“Of this” --- Namely what is contained in the chalice.
“The New Testament” --- In the OT, we saw that Moses sealed the institution of the Old Covenant with the blood of victims; so now, at the Last Supper, our Lord Jesus Christ instituted a New Covenant and sealed it with His precious Blood. The words, “This is My Blood of the New Testament” mean therefore: Through this My blood, present in the chalice, I seal and confirm My New Covenant.
“For the remission of sins” --- Shed for the salvation of men, who, through the merits of My most Precious Blood, shall obtain forgiveness of their sins.

So, by His Almighty and efficacious words, “ This is My Body; this is My Blood ”, Jesus changed the bread into His Body and the wine into His Blood and gave them to be partaken of by His Apostles. The appearances, the shape, color, taste, etc. of the bread and wine remained, therefore Our Lord gave His Body and Blood to be received by the Apostles under the form of bread and wine.

The Apostles neither doubted or questioned His words, for the promise of the Blessed Sacrament made a year before as well as the preceding promise that “ He would eat the Paschal lamb new in His kingdom ” had already prepared them for the mystery. As Jesus solemnly took bread, raised His Eyes to heaven etc., they said to themselves, Now the Master is going to perform that which He promised to do, a year ago in the synagogue at Capharnaum.

By the words, “ Do this in commemoration of Me ”, Our Lord gave to the Apostles and their successors, the bishops and priests of the Church the power of changing bread and wine into His Body and Blood, and of distributing them to the faithful; so that to this day, in the Holy Mass, bishops and priests change the bread and wine into the Body and Blood of Jesus when, speaking His name, they promise the words: “ This is My Body; this is My Blood. ” The Sacrament in which the Body and Blood of our Lord are thus present and received, is called the Holy Eucharist and sometimes the Most Holy Sacrament because it is more holy than the other Sacraments because Jesus Himself, and not only His grace being received therein.



What do Catholics mean by the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? Our Lord did not give His Sacred Body and Blood under the form of bread and wine only to be received by His Apostles. He offered them first as a sacrifice to His heavenly Father. That the Holy Eucharist is a Sacrifice is shown by the separation of the Blood from the Body as also by the words of institution. “This is My Body, which is given for you”, which is offered up for your salvation.

Note on this section just given: In the Greek text of St. Luke 22:20, our Lord’s words when He gave the chalice to the Apostles bear the same meaning: “ This is My Blood which IS shed for you.” (not “shall be shed for you”). The shedding of the Blood for them takes place here under the appearances of bread and wine; in other words, the Blood is sacrificed Blood. St. Paul’s account of the institution of the Holy Eucharist and the Sacrifice of the Mass, conveys the same meaning. The passage 1Cor. 11:24 can be translated: “ This is My Body, which is broken for you.” Now, note carefully, on the Cross, the Body of Our Lord was not broken, therefore the word “broken” can only be understood of His Sacred Body under the appearance of bread.

Our Lord therefore instituted the Holy Eucharist to be a Sacrifice, and commanded the Apostles and their successors to continue to offer this unbloody Sacrifice, which we call the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Our Lord offered up the first Mass at the Last Supper, and in it we can distinguish the three principal parts of the Mass.
First, “ He took bread, gave thanks and blessed it ” is the Offertory. Then, He said, “ This is My Body--This is My Blood ”, and by these almighty words changed the bread into His Sacred Body, and the wine into His Precious Blood: that was the Consecration. Finally, the Apostles ate His Body and drank His Blood: that was the Holy Communion.

Institution of the Priesthood: To offer sacrifice is the office of a priest, as we know from reading the Old Testament. When our Lord said, “Do this in remembrance of Me”, He gave to His Apostles the power to change the bread and wine, and to offer up the spotless Sacrifice of the New Testament, He instituted the priesthood of the New Covenant.

The institution of the New Covenant: Moses confirmed and consecrated the Old Covenant by the blood of victims. Our Lord refers to this when He said: “ This is My Blood of the New Testament. ” He instituted a new and eternal Covenant, and in confirmation of it, He give His own Blood as a sacrifice, to be drunk by us. The blood of victims with which Moses sprinkled the people of Israel could not, of itself, deliver men from sin, and make them pleasing to God, for its whole efficacy lay in its being a type of the Precious Blood of Jesus, which taketh away the sins of the world. That which Moses did, as a visible type, Our Lord did in reality. By giving His Precious, sin-cleansing Blood, He instituted a new Covenant of grace which redeemed man, and by the Sacrament and Sacrifice of His Body and Blood, He gave him a lasting memorial of His love, and inexhaustible source of grace.

The true Paschal Lamb: Now we can understand why our Lord instituted the Holy Eucharist immediately after the Paschal feast. The Jewish Paschal lamb was the most perfect type of the blessed Sacrament. Our Lord first ate the typical Paschal lamb, and by doing so closed the Old Testament. Having done so, He Instituted the Holy Eucharist, the true Paschal Feast, and with it, instituted the New Testament of grace. Thus at the Last Supper, we see shadow and substance together, type and anti type. Jesus Christ, in the Holy Eucharist, is our Paschal Lamb, because He first sacrifices Himself for us, and then gives Himself to us as our Food. And it is for this reason, that the words: “ Lamb of God, who takest away the sins of the world, have mercy on us ” are said in the Mass just before the priest’s Communion. The Jewish Paschal lamb was eaten first as a means then as a memorial of the deliverance from the bondage in Egypt. Our Paschal Lamb is eaten as a perpetual means and memorial of our deliverance from the slavery of sin and Satan, and in thanksgiving for the grace of Redemption.

tHANK YOU FOLKS FOR LETTING ME HAVE MY 19TH 100 PLUS ARTICLE.