Just like when Walter Chronkite announced that the war was unwinnable (after we WON the Tet Offensive), today's traitors in the MSM couldn't care less about facts or truth.

Walter Chronkite betrayed our troops in Vietnam, now today his minions do the same. 

They should be treated as the enemy to freedom that they are.

(Citizen)ParaTed2kDecember 15, 2006 14:14:17

Walter Cronkite betrayed our troops in Vietnam, now today his minions do the same. They should be treated as the enemy to freedom that they are.

Cronkite was and still is a traitor, even if he is rotting in his grave.

I am all for Justice for the war protesters. Take their citizenship away and drop them in Iraq, Iran, Syria, North Korea and let them preach their anti American bull crap there I am sure they will be treated like kings and queens and they spew forth the same exact venom the enemies of America are, BASHING AMERICA, TELLING THE ENTIRE WORLD we are a nation of cowards and the real cause for all the ills of the worlds.

There is no army on this planet that can defeat us. But then they don't have to. They just use their willing dupes in the press to do the job for them.

(Citizen)Dr. Guy December 15, 2006 15:06:02

There is no army on this planet that can defeat us. But then they don't have to. They just use their willing dupes in the press to do the job for them.

At this time in history the greatest threat to AMERICA IS NOT THE TERRORISTS, it is the lying main stream media.

We lost Vietnam, and we lost many major battles if you look at what was spent to "win" them. In order to defeat a meat grinder, military commanders decided the best thing to do was choke it with meat. Almost 60,000 Americans died, not because of propaganda, but because their lives didn't mean anything to their commanders.

In terms of propaganda, the MSM didn't need to make it up in Vietnam. Hundreds of American dead per week were sufficient.

Reply By: BakerStreetPosted: Friday, December 15, 2006 We lost Vietnam, and we lost many major battles if you look at what was spent to "win" them. In order to defeat a meat grinder, military commanders decided the best thing to do was choke it with meat. Almost 60,000 Americans died, not because of propaganda, but because their lives didn't mean anything to their commanders. In terms of propaganda, the MSM didn't need to make it up in Vietnam. Hundreds of American dead per week were sufficient.

From 1965 through and including 1975 11 years 53,000 dead. Against hundreds of thousands dead for the enemy.

you are wrong baker. We did not lose "many" battles, we won the vast majority of conflicts. You must be reading the MSM book of Vietnam, lies and more lies and you of all people should not be so gullible .

we officially got into Vietnam in 1961 by the way now we have 15 years 52 weeks =-780 weeks.

780 divided into 53,000=67 dead per week. so again your wrong  67 is a very long way from" HUNDREDS"

That's an odd assertion for someone who was in Vietnam to make, unless you're just trying to pad the numbers and hope I don't notice. "Major" battles the US military undertook in Vietnam started in 1965, and all US military operations ended in January of 1973, and the troop levels for '73 were basically nil:

1959: 760

1960: 900

1961: 3205

1962: 11300

1963: 16300

1964: 23300

1965: 184300

1966: 385300

1967: 485600

1968: 536100

1969: 475200

1970 334600

1971: 156800

1972: 24200

1973: 50

(link), (link)

So if you take the years where the US had real "major" battles, 1965-1972, and multiply by 52, you get 416. Divide that into the REAL number of US killed and MIA, 58,193, you get 139 per week on AVERAGE. These things don't happen on average, so there were many, many weeks when people saw hundreds of dead coming home from Vietnam.

That's not propaganda, that's raw data condemning the miscreants who sacrificed American lives needlessly. For instance 1545 men died in January of 1968. 2259 died in February.

You can't whitewash Vietnam. You can praise the bravery of the valiant men who were ordered and did as they were told and lost their lives. Don't for a second praise the awful political mess that treated them like grist for the mill, because you just honor people who didn't give a damn about the men who were fighting there.

Vietnam was a tragedy. Period. It was tragic for the hundreds of thousands of Vietnamese that lost their lives, and it was tragic for the US that still hasn't recovered from it. If you want to call that a series of major victories, then there's really no possibility of reasoning out of you what wasn't reasoned in.

I mean, good lord, moderateman. In just the years 1967, 1968, and 1969, 39,361 US soldiers lost their lives. That makes 252 per WEEK on average for those years. You call that "propaganda"?

Could you please, if you would, back up your assertion that we didn't lose Vietnam? Could you please pose what you consider to be the hallmarks of success of the venture that took hundreds of thousands of lives on our side of the war?

Going to have to disagree with you a bit MM... There is a difference between a war protestor and someone who has taken the enemy's side in a war.

"It is just as constitutional to protest any war as to fight in it" ~ ParaTed2k's (Not So) Famous Sayings.

A war protestor is against the war... period. They don't want either side to fight at all. What we have in the MSM is actively (and knowingly) helping the enemy to win. True, the enemy will use the actions and words of the protestor to their advantage, but that is just tactics. Mikey Mooron, ColGene and others know what they want, and what they want is for the US to lose.

That is not anti war, that is pro-enemy.

Reply By: BakerStreetPosted: Friday, December 15, 2006

One of the many blessings of math is anyone can use the same figures to prove different points.

We did not lose in vietnam {meaning the troops} The mass of anti-war propaganda lost the war.

A vietnamese general said, the american public and anti-war protestors along with the lies being spread by American news won the war for them.

A war protestor is against the war... period. They don't want either side to fight at all. What we have in the MSM is actively (and knowingly) helping the enemy to win. True, the enemy will use the actions and words of the protestor to their advantage, but that is just tactics. Mikey Mooron, ColGene and others know what they want, and what they want is for the US to lose. That is not anti war, that is pro-enemy.

I think that is the one huge difference between the protestors involved in vietnam and the ones involved today.

The vietnam protestors wanted the war to end.. The Iraq war protestors want America to lose.

"It is just as constitutional to protest any war as to fight in it" ~ ParaTed2k's (Not So) Famous Sayings

and just as patriotic.   Reply By: ParaTed2kPosted: Friday, December 15, 2006 Going to have to disagree with you a bit MM... There is a difference between a war protestor and someone who has taken the enemy's side in a war.

Agreed.

What a load of huey. Walter Cronkite a traitor?! Most do not share your stilted version of reality, unModerateman. Given the political and military situation the war was unwinnable. The North Vietnamese did not care how many they lost. They had no military infrustructure that we could bomb. They used supplies from the Chinese and Russians, used routes obscured by the thick jungles for their supply lines, and depended on the fact that we could not attack them without bringing the other superpowers into play and risk nuclear war. We could not go on the offensive because there were no front lines. Our pilots were being shot down daily and put into hellholes all around Hanoi. Our troops waited in firebases to be attacked, or go out in patrols where we would be slowly whittled away. Just how of our youth would you have had die for that worthless cause. Democracy in Vietnam? They had a coup to overthrow the Democratically elected government because of their totalitarian excesses. Their only real difference from the North was they were not Marxist. Ho Chi Mihn came to us first to ask for independence from French imperialism.

Flash into current day. We have a situation where we do not have the troops to quell the situation, and disagreement from top brass that more troops would even help. We have been staying the course and everyone but George Bush and Dick Cheney say that we are not winning there. Is it just the ultra leftist media? No, its people like former Chief of Staff and Secretary of State Baker, and the new Secretary of Defense Gates. Can you really look me in the eyes and say that things are better now than in 2004 when Dubyah was re-elected under the belief that even he couldn't fug it up any more than he had.

Do you really believe that everyone in the media is left leaning? If media has a bias, its an entertainment bias. They will report what puts people in front of the TV to watch. They went after John Kerry and his record in Vietnam and after just as hard as they went after the Michael Jackson trial and Terry Schiavo. It didn't really even matter which side of the debate that they came in on.

(Citizen)whoman69December 16, 2006 11:54:15

What a load of Huey. Walter Cronkite a traitor?! Most do not share your stilted version of reality, unModerateman

I know that freedom of thought upsets you liberals, but last time I checked it is still America the same America I fought and bled for and I am entitled to my opinion as you are entitled to your twisted secular progressive view.

I see you have not changed, from defending terrorists "rights" and still looking for ways to trash this great country.
Nice to see the enemies of America so out there unafraid to express their hatred because of men and women , American men and women willing to die for YOUR freedom.

The MSM did their best to ignore the Kerry debacle, fox news did not ignore it. so the MSM had to chime in.

Only someone like you could see a murderous regime like the north Vietnamese as freedom fighters. the same regime that MURDERED millions after we left.

I am sure when you pray {if you pray} it is to your heroes, like Mao, Adolph, Stalin, pol pot, ho chi, and the great men of Al qaeda, hamas, and Hezbollah.
Sleep well know BETTER MEN THAN YOU are fighting and dieing so you can rest safely.

They had no military infrustructure that we could bomb

This is either an "outright" lie or you have been sadly misinformed. You should start by checking on Hanoi. Read this. What do you think we were bombing? Thin air?

Link

drmilerDecember 16, 2006 14:22:58

They had no military infrustructure that we could bomb This is either an "outright" lie or you have been sadly misinformed. You should start by checking on Hanoi. Read this. What do you think we were bombing? Thin air?

whoman never worries about facts docm, as long as he can blindly parrot terrorists thoughts and secular progressive propaganda, he is content.