Quite interesting MM. I don't remember people raising a big stink when, what was it 8 of our soldiers were killed. Now THAT was a place we should not have been. IMO.

1 by Adventure-Dude Wed, August 09, 2006 6:58 PM

Quite interesting MM.

intresting yet infinitely sad for me.

While the entire world is wringing their hands over the death of "innocent" civilians in Lebanon, no one said a word about the civilian deaths in Kosovo

if that was true, there'd be no report to which you could provide a link--much less such a detailed report.

whether you're able or willing to admit it, there is a significant difference between the war being waged in lebanon and what happened in kosovo. here is one aspect (from the linked report).

Human Rights Watch was able to determine the intended target in sixty-two of the ninety incidents (68 percent). Of these, the greater number of incidents were caused as a result of attacks on military barracks, headquarters, and depots; thirteen were a result of attacks on bridges (and one tunnel); six resulted from attacks on telecommunications and air defense facilities; five each resulted from attacks on industrial facilities, oil installations, and airfields; and seven were as a result of attacks on convoys or on what were perceived to be military forces in the field. These latter incidents were the most deadly, though two of the ten worst incidents occurred as a result of attacks on bridges.

should anyone ever attempt to determine the causes of civilian death in lebanon, will 2/3 of the incidents likely be attributed to unintentional or collateral consequences of attacks on non-civilian, non-combatant targets as those presented in this report?

i have no idea why you see any basis for comparing what's goin on in lebanon now to what went on in kosovo except, perhaps, you've lost all perspective due to being so badly blinded by your own hatred of all those other semites in this conflict.

i have no idea why you see any basis for comparing what's goin on in lebanon now to what went on in kosovo except, perhaps, you've lost all perspective due to being so badly blinded by your own hatred of all those other semites in this conflict.

Actually, I get the same impression as MM does.  How is it that several (maybe thousands or millions) would get that impression?

By the way the news is slanted by the reporting media.  There have been so many documented cases recently of the MSM (AP, NY Times, CNN, Reuters, etc.) being either spoon fed propaganda, or doing the doctoring themselves, that it is small wonder that some would see a double standard.  Whether that standard exists outside of the reporting media can be debated.  But with the evidence readily available, what cannot be debated is the double standard of the MSM.

whether you're able or willing to admit it, there is a significant difference between the war being waged in lebanon and what happened in kosovo. here is one aspect (from the linked report).

I will never understand why people, like you for example, use this "it's not the same war" excuse to say that they should not be compared? Let's see, in both situations there were conflicting opinions, there were people willing to kill on both sides, there were weapons used and there were both innocent civilians and targeted people kill, can you explain to me what exactly is different between these to situations? Sure the reasons were different, but does that matter when you start counting the dead? Are you trying to say it is OK to have collateral damage as long as there is a good reason for it? At least a good reason depending on who is looking at the reason? Makes no sense to me, MM was not trying to compare the reasons for which each incident happened, at least that's not what I get, he's comparing deaths of innocent people in the middle of battles for what ever reason. that;'s what I got from this article.

Am I wrong MM?

can you explain to me what exactly is different between these to situations?

if, after reading the complete document to which mm linked, you don't see a very obvious difference, i guess someone's gonna have to splain it to you.

anyone capable of reading his way outta a paper bag cannot help but realize human rights watch opposes armed conflicts with even the teeniest lil potential for incidental civilian injury or death. not very realistic, right? you prolly don't agree. nonetheless, it's their position and unlikely to be persuaded otherwise.

taking all that into consideration, you shouldn't be at all surprised to discover they disapprove of all parties to any armed conflict in which even one non-combatant civilian is inadvertantly harmed or killed.

as an advocacy group committed to protecting civilians by opposing of weapons & tactics designed to inflict indiscriminate damage as well as compiling the type of data presented in the linked report, hrw does its best to shame all participants into fighting more responsibly.

so...to answer your question, reread the linked article again please, does it seem to you nato's kosovo mission was severely criticized in this report. or do you get the sense hrw grudgingly concluded nato made more than a semi-,quas- pseudo- effort to avoid killing and injuring civilians.

has isreal done the same? or even anything close to it?
before you make engage your arm to start typing foolishness, you may wanna do a lil research in hopes of avoiding of making yourself look dismally foolish.

oh...and imagine israel doin something like this:

In an important development, sensitivity to civilian casualties led to significant changes in weapons use. Widespread reports of civilian casualties from the use of cluster bombs and international criticism of these weapons as potentially indiscriminate in effect led, according to senior U.S. Department of Defense officials interviewed by Human Rights Watch, to an unprecedented (and unannounced) U.S. executive order in the middle of May to cease their further use in the conflict. The White House issued the order only days after civilians were killed by NATO cluster bombs in the city of Nis on May 7. U.S. cluster bomb use did apparently stop at about that time, according to Human Rights Watch observations, although British cluster bomb use continued. Human Rights Watch released its own report on May 11 questioning the civilian effects of cluster bombs and calling for a moratorium on their use.

I am leaving this blog alone now, I will no longer be answering or responding on this one.

 

 

MM

Reply By: kingbeePosted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 While the entire world is wringing their hands over the death of "innocent" civilians in Lebanon, no one said a word about the civilian deaths in Kosovo if that was true, there'd be no report to which you could provide a link--much less such a detailed report.

Great just as I say I am abandoning this article, it gets featured.

I never meant that it was ignored by peole that follow wars.
I mean that there was no worldwide handwringing, and I stand by that.

The entire world seems to be scared of these killers, but to ignore that they started this war, not just the kidnapping of 2 Israelis, but closing an international border, killing 8 others plus the kidnapping. If this was done to American troops based here in America we would do the same. Picture this, Mexicans coming across our border, killing 8 national guard, and kidnapping two other guard members, holding them hostage till we allow any and all Mexicans to cross the border at will.

Reply By: Charles.CPosted: Thursday, August 10, 2006 whether you're able or willing to admit it, there is a significant difference between the war being waged in lebanon and what happened in kosovo. here is one aspect (from the linked report). I will never understand why people, like you for example, use this "it's not the same war" excuse to say that they should not be compared? Let's see, in both situations there were conflicting opinions, there were people willing to kill on both sides, there were weapons used and there were both innocent civilians and targeted people kill, can you explain to me what exactly is different between these to situations? Sure the reasons were different, but does that matter when you start counting the dead? Are you trying to say it is OK to have collateral damage as long as there is a good reason for it? At least a good reason depending on who is looking at the reason? Makes no sense to me, MM was not trying to compare the reasons for which each incident happened, at least that's not what I get, he's comparing deaths of innocent people in the middle of battles for what ever reason. that;'s what I got from this article. Am I wrong MM?

 

no charles, you are exactly right!!!

Reply By: Dr. Gaypost: Thursday, August 10, 2006 i have no idea why you see any basis for comparing what's going on in Lebanon now to what went on in kosovo except, perhaps, you've lost all perspective due to being so badly blinded by your own hatred of all those other Semites in this conflict. Actually, I get the same impression as MM does. How is it that several (maybe thousands or millions) would get that impression?

Being tracked by a group that makes it its business to do that, is not the same as every major country in the world crying about the poor civilians deaths in Lebanon, they make like it is some kind of aberration,

it's not the same war" excuse to say that they should not be compared?

I wonder if people don't see that this is just the beginning of something more as MM as pointed out before in other blogs. [at least I think you did Elie] Let's face it folks, we cannot keep doing this. We cannot keep saying this is not the same war, or this is not happening for this reason, but for that reason. Or that they (Israel) caused this on themselves. Do you not ever think that these cowards and that other big coward, Bin Laden could be link and that this is just the beginning of what they have plotted together? Now we've found out about Pakistan's threat to other citizens that live in their part of the world, and not to mention those caught in Britain recently....when are we going to see the writing ont he wall?

#12 by foreverserenity Fri, August 11, 2006 2:28 PM

wonder if people don't see that this is just the beginning of something more as MM as pointed out before in other blogs. [at least I think you did Elie] Let's face it folks, we cannot keep doing this. We cannot keep saying this is not the same war, or this is not happening for this reason, but for that reason. Or that they (Israel) caused this on themselves. Do you not ever think that these cowards and that other big coward, Bin Laden could be link and that this is just the beginning of what they have plotted together? Now we've found out about Pakistan's threat to other citizens that live in their part of the world, and not to mention those caught in Britain recently....when are we going to see the writing ont he wall?

it's all [part and parcel of how anti-semetic a good part of the world is.

Until we people other than Muslims see how dangerous these monsters are we are doomed. The fanatics will not stop, till they are dead or they convert the world to Islam.

Reply By: d_v310p3r(Anonymous User)

3 points.

1: Might help if you register

2: Might help if you spell correctly

3: Might help if you actually read all materials.

Reply By: Dr. GuyPosted: Friday, August 11, 2006 Reply By: d_v310p3r(Anonymous User) 3 points. 1: Might help if you register 2: Might help if you spell correctly 3: Might help if you actually read all materials.

 

might help if I delete idiots and close to anon users