AMERICA, Modern Day Tower of Babel?

A small comparison between America and a biblical event.

Published on April 15, 2006 By Moderateman In Politics

http://www.ldolphin.org/babel.html

All of this language mixing once destroyed a proud nation, {read the link}

Having a multi language separated man and woman from each other in the Bible!

This demanding of some of our Immigrants that we accommodate them by learning there language, write things so they can understand them, instead of insisting all immigrants speak, read and write this countries language is leading America along the same path as the tower of babel did, destroying the country as it destroyed mans ability to communicate long ago in just ONE LANGUAGE.

WE as a nation must stop this politically correct behavior and start insisting, you want to be an American? and live in this country, learn our language! Period. Keep your countries language, teach you children the customs and spirit of your homeland, do not let that die, but!!!!! blend in and learn English first.

Do not let America go the way of the Tower of Babel, those that do not heed history is doomed to repeat it.

Comments (Page 3)

Rightwinger

on Apr 17, 2006

I'm tired of fighting with Baker over on KFC's thread. Maybe I'll come here.+LOL+

Moderateman

on Apr 17, 2006

Reply By: BakerStreetPosted: Monday, April 17, 2006

baker? there is a world of difference between you going into a latino community and demanding they speak english and millions of illegals demanding we change from english to spanish because they refuse to do the same thing, my mother and father HAD TO DO ... speak english!!! I could not even imagine my mom and dad demanding america learn Turkish in order to communicate with them.

You are being unreasonable on this subject baker IMO

Rightwinger

on Apr 17, 2006

You are being unreasonable on this subject baker IMO

And mine.

Moderateman

on Apr 17, 2006

Reply By: RightwingerPosted: Monday, April 17, 2006You are being unreasonable on this subject baker IMOAnd mine.

I really do not like seeing 2 of my favorite neo-cons duking it out. heh

bakerstreet

on Apr 17, 2006

"baker? there is a world of difference between you going into a latino community and demanding they speak english and millions of illegals demanding we change from english to spanish because they refuse to do the same thing, my mother and father HAD TO DO ... speak english!!! I could not even imagine my mom and dad demanding america learn Turkish in order to communicate with them.

Huh? The communities are what you guys have a problem with. A lone Mexican guy standing around not being understood doesn't hurt or threaten you. He's the one at the disadvantage. What you are threatened by is when you see whole segments of the US speaking and YOU not understanding.

The Tower of Babel was a problem because no one could understand each other. You don't have to have a single language in order for people to understand each other, you just need to understand the languages. Those illegals don't have to learn to speak English because we have huge, thriving Latino communities in the US that speak Spanish primarily.

And there's where everything changes. Suddenly, they demand representation, and you toss a fit. Heaven forbid US citizens make decisions in their own communities. Much better to let Unkle Left in Washington impose values on the rest of us while Uncle Right imposes the same thing. I'm sick of imposition altogether.

Like I said elsewhere, if you want to make your community a single-language community, knock yourself out. When enough people of other cultures move in, though, they should have the right to make whatever democratic changes they want as well. It's easy for you to think of "America" as one big lump, but you have no more business imposing an "official" language on the South Florida cuban community than they have imposing "official" Spanish on you.

If anyone is inconsistant, it would be folks who hate the idea of Liberals imposing their cultural values on them day after day and then turn around and do the same thing themselves. No one is telling you that you have to learn Spanish. I don't care if you do or not, but don't pretend that the lack of a skill is somehow a better option.

If you want to be teary-eyed patriotic, stand up for the people of the US making their own choices in a government that represents who they are, not some pre-defined whitebread standard protecting itself from the unwashed masses. This silly protectionism is just folks like you realizing that later, it might not be in your best interest if people have the right to choose for themselves. Best to define what "American" is now and have it over with.

I don't like people a thousand miles away deciding whether we have abortion in my community, and it isn't any more palatable for people 1,000 miles away to tell us what our official language is. If I get upset at Democrats for their social darwinism, expect me to either be a hypocrite or dislike social darwinism on the other side as well.

Dr Guy

on Apr 17, 2006

No Baker. The problem is when you walk into a business and cannot engage in a transaction because they No Habla Englise. It happens here in the old dominion. MM is not talking about walking down to little mexico and not being understood.

Moderateman

on Apr 17, 2006

baker? first take a breathe.. ok now center yourself. it is unreasonable to expect any nation with a single national language to learn what? how many? first spanish, then what? farsi? Japaneese? chinese and its many dialects? what next? how many must i learn? would not it be easier for everyone that comes here to learn english than to expect all americans to speak how many languages?

cactoblasta

on Apr 17, 2006

Baker? first take a breathe.. ok now center yourself. it is unreasonable to expect any nation with a single national language to learn what? how many? first spanish, then what? farsi? Japaneese? chinese and its many dialects? what next? how many must i learn? would not it be easier for everyone that comes here to learn english than to expect all americans to speak how many languages?

I would say as many as necessary. Most likely there won't be more than 2 commonly used languages in a single location; there's a whole tonne of theory behind that, but let's not go there. So realistically you'll need to be fluent in one and passable in another. That's achievable for practically anyone, especially when everyone else is learning multiple languages. You'll end up with a pidgin and possibly, after a few centuries, a creole you can all understand.

But more basically I don't understand what your problem with a multilingual society is if it's not some form of cultural racism. Don't you get a kick out of using new languages? Is it some sort of NIMBY reaction? You've got nothing against 'other' cultures as long as you don't have to have anything to do with them?

Moderateman

on Apr 17, 2006

Reply By: cactoblastaPosted: Monday, April 17, 2006Baker? first take a breathe.. ok now center yourself. it is unreasonable to expect any nation with a single national language to learn what? how many? first spanish, then what? farsi? Japaneese? chinese and its many dialects? what next? how many must i learn? would not it be easier for everyone that comes here to learn english than to expect all americans to speak how many languages?I would say as many as necessary. Most likely there won't be more than 2 commonly used languages in a single location; there's a whole tonne of theory behind that, but let's not go there. So realistically you'll need to be fluent in one and passable in another. That's achievable for practically anyone, especially when everyone else is learning multiple languages. You'll end up with a pidgin and possibly, after a few centuries, a creole you can all understand.But more basically I don't understand what your problem with a multilingual society is if it's not some form of cultural racism. Don't you get a kick out of using new languages? Is it some sort of NIMBY reaction? You've got nothing against 'other' cultures as long as you don't have to have anything to do with them?

multi-language contries fall.. quickly, historically a truth.

bakerstreet

on Apr 17, 2006

"No Baker. The problem is when you walk into a business and cannot engage in a transaction because they No Habla Englise. It happens here in the old dominion. MM is not talking about walking down to little mexico and not being understood."

Dunno about you, but after 10 years at least of having people at McDonalds straining to understand me, I think eventually you have to read the writing on the wall. When they walk into your house and want to buy your lawnmower, you can sit back and refuse to sell it because you don't understand them.

Otherwise, it sounds like in this case you are wanting something they are selling, which would make it your problem. If you think there is an moral point more valid in a transaction than getting your hamburger, you are, of course, free to do without.

Me, I think it is worth it to learn a sentence or two if it means getting what I want. The objective reality isn't "'mericans speak english", the reality is the guy you are trying to order from doesn't understand you. Feel free to rely on your personal definition of America and do without fast food. Probably better for you in the long run.

" baker? first take a breathe.. ok now center yourself. it is unreasonable to expect any nation with a single national language to learn what? how many? first spanish, then what? farsi? Japaneese? chinese and its many dialects? what next? how many must i learn? would not it be easier for everyone that comes here to learn english than to expect all americans to speak how many languages?"

As many as it takes to get through life. You understand that in terms of people visiting other countries, you just have the deranged idea that we can simply wave our sceptor and make everyone here speak English. We can't, and if we could we'd be fascist pigs that intrude into your community and tell you that fellahs in black robes in the 9th District know more about what is good for you than you do.

It's a two way street, or no street at all. You want to give the folks in the ethnic communities the right to lord over you, feel free to lord over them. If you want to REALLY be patriotic and support freedom and democracy then leave people to make the decisions they want to make in their states and communities, and keep the federal government out of our language. God knows they've a pinky in every orifice as it is...

bakerstreet

on Apr 17, 2006

"multi-language contries fall.. quickly, historically a truth."

Never mind that there are numerous multi-lingual nations around the world that are booming right now. Never mind that nations that have worked like fascists for 50 year to protect their precious cultural bias are now becoming forgotten empires that everyone jokes about. Never mind that the longest-lived empires in the world sported numerous languages.

All the rot about Rome or any other empire uniting their vast empire under a single language is crap, frankly. It made them feel important, but they learned the lingo or had their translator so they could order a hamburger when they were out and about in the provinces. Sure, everyone knew a smattering of latin, and our languages still have some in it, but when was the last time you ordered your hamburger in Latin? Those little "defeated" languages just ate up Latin and moved on, just like the modern Latin, English will either evolve or just be eaten up.

Rome didn't die because they let their language be taken over. Rome died because they thought they were THE culture, and ignored all the ones they felt were annoying and couldn't be bothered with. Rome didn't fall in a day, it just became and antique on people's shelves, like American culture will if it doesn't adapt.

You show me a nation that speaks ancient greek, latin, etc., and we'll talk about your theory on single-language nations having staying power. Otherwise, it looks like to me all the little languages won.

Locamama

on Apr 17, 2006

If you move to a foreign country and make your home there, you should make every attempt to learn the language. The businesses in the foreign country should not have to hire bilingual employees to cater to you.

If you want to expand your horizons and learn another language - great. I don't think that should be required or people who don't speak more than one language should be condemned.

Chakgogka

on Apr 17, 2006

If you move to a foreign country and make your home there, you should make every attempt to learn the language.

This is interesting. I live in South Korea and I have been making "every attempt to learn the language", but that puts me in a distinct minority.

A little bit of techical background: the US State Department's Foreign Language Service divides the major world languages into four levels for the purposes of teaching them to native English-speaker diplomats, level 1 being the 'easiest' and level 4 the hardest. There are only 4 languages in level 4: Arabic, Chinese, Japanese and Korean. Chinese and Japanese are largely classified this way because of their difficult writing systems. Korean has a (relatively) simple writing system, so it must just be a very difficult language to speak period (or 'full stop' if you prefer

).

Most Americans I meet here speak pitifully little Korean. Given what I have to say above, that may not be so surprising. What amazes people who come here from other parts of Asia is that the Koreans seem to be OK with that. This is the only country in the region in which every road sign is in the local language and English. All the announcements on the subway are in Korean and English. Even store front signs can be found in both languages. So, is the Korean language dying out? Hardly.

Multi-lingualism is the global reality. Many Africans are (at least) tri-lingual, perhaps speaking their traditional tribal language, an African lingua franca like Swahili and perhaps the language of the most recent colonists (probably English or French). We are the exception and we are daily getter smaller as a percentage of the world's population.

And anyway, doesn't everybody know that "yazagraffle" is the Gujarati word for that little tube you put through the middle of a toilet roll to attach it to the toilet roll holder screwed to the bathroom wall?

Moderateman

on Apr 17, 2006

Reply By: ChakgogkaPosted: Monday, April 17, 2006If you move to a foreign country and make your home there, you should make every attempt to learn the language.

And anyway, doesn't everybody know that "yazagraffle" is the Gujarati word for that little tube you put through the middle of a toilet roll to attach it to the toilet roll holder screwed to the bathroom wall?

now that's funny!!!! thank you for the night time laugh and for once again proving the best answers are the irreverent ones.

MM

Locamama

on Apr 17, 2006

One of the guys who works at my nail salon (Vietnamese)is taking English as a Second Language and he's learning more Spanish than English. All the other people in the class are Mexican. He's so funny. Now he says "Hola, que pasa" when you come in the shop.

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