One can scream string pulling all they want to, but these people are not void of their own thoughts and opinions on this...they are not inferior to anyone else when it comes to making up their own minds about issues.

We've had several demonstrations around here that were NOT organized by some union or tv station or organization.

Link

Actually, it's worse than you think, Mod. Part of this movement is being supported and encouraged by World Can't Wait, the movement that tried to disrupt Bush's State of the Union speech (and nearly succeeded by getting Cindy Sheehan planted in the gallery). World Can't Wait has three sitting congresspersons as signatories to their movement and is a front for the Revolutionary Communist Party (this is not McCarthy-esque paranoia, on their own website they openly admit it).

Reply By: InBloomPosted: Tuesday, April 11, 2006I don't know about the puppet master thing...yes,

when people are told to wear a certain color t shirt and what flag to waave how can you claim it's noit staged?

Reply By: Gideon MacLeishPosted: Tuesday, April 11, 2006LinkActually, it's worse than you think, Mod. Part of this movement is being supported and encouraged by World Can't Wait, the movement that tried to disrupt Bush's State of the Union speech (and nearly succeeded by getting Cindy Sheehan planted in the gallery). World Can't Wait has three sitting congresspersons as signatories to their movement and is a front for the Revolutionary Communist Party (this is not McCarthy-esque paranoia, on their own website they openly admit it).

thanx for the more bad news gid .. I see what you are talking about.

Reply By: DynosoarPosted: Tuesday, April 11, 2006I noticed on several of those nice, neat printed signs some interesting initials; AFL-CIO. ( I thought the unions were against imigration? hmmm, can't beat em, join em and organize em)

I am sure the afl-cio is looking to orginize the illegals so they can collect more dues, so they can continue to support the left without the membership getting any say in who gets the money.

when people are told to wear a certain color t shirt and what flag to waave how can you claim it's noit staged?

Because the turn-out was so much bigger than you get at any purely staged event. Sure, they were given free stuff when they arrived for the protest, but are you serious saying that some evil organisation used its sinister influence to drag all of these people out of their homes and onto the streets in the first place?

That the protestors wouldn't have come if they didn't get free t-shirts and American flags? That they didn't care about the issue until a local union, tv channel or the communists told them to care?

21 by cactoblasta Tuesday, April 11, 2006

Because the turn-out was so much bigger than you get at any purely staged event. Sure, they were given free stuff when they arrived for the protest, but are you serious saying that some evil organisation used its sinister influence to drag all of these people out of their homes and onto the streets in the first place? That the protestors wouldn't have come if they didn't get free t-shirts and American flags? That they didn't care about the issue until a local union, tv channel or the communists told them to care?

Where did I say arcane or evil orgiazations?

if things were planed to that extent how can you deny there is a force BEHIND the scenes? how?

well you did say puppet masters. When people say that I naturally think 'conspiracy theory ahoy'. I've yet to hear a conspiracy theory which doesn't claim the organisers are evil.

if things were planed to that extent how can you deny there is a force BEHIND the scenes? how?

Because the planning is just tacked on. It's not important. Had the Republicans made the right moves they too could have tacked onto the illegal immigrant power base. The real issue is how government is going to deal with the fact that there are unknown millions of non-citizens inside the country's borders and no realistic way of getting rid of all of them. If the government doesn't do something now those non-citizens are going to be a serious force for change in 50 years time. Dispossessed peoples are dangerous, particularly when they're herded into second-class jobs and ghettos. It makes them susceptible to populist propaganda.

Oh, and there may well be a group of puppet masters pulling strings somewhere. But they would have little effect if it wasn't for the fact that so many people felt so strongly about the issue. All the puppet masters are doing is providing basic means of organisation. They're not creating the discontent.

Yeah, politicos see crowds that size & their eyes go all glassy with the prospect of potential votes. Numbers may have been closer to 100k, but they are always exagerated to a degree.

Many local, state & national politicians are trying to co-opt the "movement" & bend it to their own purposes. I suspect, actually, that the overwhelming majority of those at the rally were legal residents. Many of them probably have illegal relatives or friends here, however, and that is a big part of the problem. A sizable majority of the illegal population has been here long enough to be fully integrated into the Hispanic community, to have had children here who are now citizens.

I am of two minds on the problem - we shouldn't reward immigrants for succeeding in breaking our laws and sneaking in, but we shouldn't be breaking families up or deporting legal citizens (citizen dependants of illegals).

I don't see how the problem can ever be dealt with absent two pre-requisites:

1. We must change our citizenship rules to eliminate the incentive illegals have to deliver children on our soil - birthright citizenship should be limited to children of citizens & legal immigrants only.

2. We have to achieve effective control of our borders. Unlike cactoblasta, I believe that can be made to work, at least sufficiently.

I am not prepared to support the notion that the hordes can simply overrun us and demand citizenship. The Democrats are clearly salivating at that possibility, exposing themselves as vote-whores who don't think twice about ignoring our laws as long as doing so serves to return them to power. Some Republicans are doing the same, I admit, politics being the craven business that it is.

What lemmings have to do with the sizes of protest crowds I have no idea.

There is a field of study called mob mentality. In it, the positers state that an individual would never do X. It is against their code of ethics. However, when a mob gathers, their ethics are swept aside in a tide of emotions and all of a sudden what 1000 individuals would not do, a mob of 1000 will.

Thus Mobs are like lemmings. Following the flow even to their own destruction.

Wish I knew how to put a link in a comment....anyway, FOX News. com has an article about the organizers...seems they had a kickoff meeting back in March....

We have to achieve effective control of our borders. Unlike cactoblasta, I believe that can be made to work, at least sufficiently.

I don't think the US has the manpower or the political will to patrol the borders. They're very big, very expensive to enforce and the immigrant voter bloc grows every day. Unless Customs starts using satellite imagery or other expensively high-tech options to track human movement as well as physical impediments to border crossing - minefields could work, or huge swathes of razor wire - the border will still allow entrance to a lot of immigrants. Add to that the surrounding oceans and it would be extremely difficult to enforce.

Would Congress be prepared to pass all the measures necessary to provide border security? Personally I doubt it.

There is a field of study called mob mentality. In it, the positers state that an individual would never do X. It is against their code of ethics. However, when a mob gathers, their ethics are swept aside in a tide of emotions and all of a sudden what 1000 individuals would not do, a mob of 1000 will. Thus Mobs are like lemmings. Following the flow even to their own destruction.

I am aware of it. But the protests were non-violent, were they not? Therefore the mob mentality is irrelevent; everyone who attended the protest made a conscious decision to do so (they don't live in packs like wild dogs you know), and once sufficient numbers for a mob was formed its dangerous nature wasn't brought out.

1. We must change our citizenship rules to eliminate the incentive illegals have to deliver children on our soil - birthright citizenship should be limited to children of citizens & legal immigrants only.

That will require an amendment to the constitution, daiwa. While I would support such an amendment (the intent of the 14th amendment was to grant citizenship status to slaves, and it is not as relevant as it was when passed), the question remains: would a strong enough majority of Americans support it for it to pass? Considering the political makeup of many states, I'd bet the answer to this is no.