America has problems, but America is NOT THE PROBLEM!~
sad but true
Published on January 24, 2005 By Moderateman In Misc
Where are the cries of outrage about our own prison system?
I see great wailing and gnashing of teeth about American treatment of Iraqi prisoners,
Yet not a word about our own prison system and the inhumane treatment of the humans stockpiled there.

Is it because it’s not faddy enough yet? Is it because somehow the blame for the abhorrent
Treatment meted out there cannot be blamed on Bush or his administration?

There are many more “horror” stories about how we treat our own peoples {prisoners}
Yet not a single outcry from the left or right on this.



I just have to ask why? When there is such outrage being shown about a people from another country being mistreated, nothing is said about this?

Where are all the bleeders?
Where are the moderates?


Comments (Page 1)
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on Jan 24, 2005

If you haven't seen outcry over the prison system, you haven't been looking. Liberation theologians in America have bemoaned the plight of our prison system for years, Libertarians have decried the incarceration of perpetrators of victimless crimes, left and right humanitarians alike have decried the death penalty. The difference between this and Abu Ghraib is that the latter is fresh and new and the former is a drum many of us have been beating for years, to the point where many who listen to it have become accustomed to the drone.

 

on Jan 24, 2005


I see and understand gid, I just wanted to point out while it seems most are decrying the "torture" going on overseas, the torure at home is overlooked or become old news.
on Jan 24, 2005

Yet not a word about our own prison system and the inhumane treatment of the humans stockpiled there.


Can you explain what you mean by 'inhumane' treatment of American prisoners in American jails and prisons?

on Jan 24, 2005

dharma,


In Texas, an audit of a county jail's books showed a man who was sentenced to 30 days for vagrancy being held over 90 days beyond his scheduled release date.


In many prisons, prison rpe has been seen as so much a part of the culture that it is overlooked by the guards (my own experience in a county jail at 18 when I was threatened by an inmate was to be sent to "the hole" and my sentence extended due to fabrications made by the inmate, who entered my cell intending to kill me).


Granted, most abuses in the American system pale in comparison to Abu Ghraib, but I remain staunch in my contention that those who call prison a "country club" have never served time in prison.

on Jan 24, 2005
Reply By: Gideon MacLeishPosted: Monday, January 24, 2005dharma,


what gid said and much more dharma.... just type american prison abuse in the url bar and keep a waste basket by you for vomiting... here is one nasty example in calif, where I live, Prisoners being made to fight on an other, while the guards bet on it.. this is "real" fighting kicking biteing, chokeing etc.
on Jan 24, 2005

There's a big difference between 'inhumane' treatment and outright abuse, though. 


I'll agree that there are incidents of prisoners abusing other prisoners, and I will also agree that there are 'rogue' guards who take pleasure in encouraging inmate violence.  However, not all corrections officers are like that, just as not all inmates are abused and tortured.


Anytime you put a bunch of people who are inclined to violence in the same place with limited recreational facilities...well, that's a recipe for disaster. These convicts couldn't behave themselves in society, so what makes anyone think they're going to be able themselves whilst they're incarcerated?  Yes, the prison guards are there to protect the inmates from each other, but they cannot have eyes on them 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. The more violent offenders are sometimes moved to a SHU (secure housing unit) to protect not only themselves but the general prison population from them....but as soon as that's done, people start screaming 'abuse' and 'inhumane conditions'.  You can't win.


Gid, can you give me a reference for the vagrant issue?  I'd like to go research that one.  Oh, and I did a number of searches for 'american prison abuse' and found almost nothing relating to US penetentiaries.

on Jan 24, 2005
Ok heres something you can get your teeth into.... In new york sing sing prison a nortorious place was condemned in the 60s by the federal court.. soon after it reopened as sing sing correctionl facility, then long court again and condemned again reopened as sing sing
medical facility.. condemned again reopened as ossning corr.fac condemned reopened as ossning reception center, condemned, reopened as ossning medical and reception center.... If any of us tried this shit we would be hung by the courts. but since only prisoner were involved there was no cry of hey!!!! this is wrong... last time I looked its still open btw.
on Jan 24, 2005
www.bepress.com/cgi/viewcontent. cgi?article=1014&context=mwjhr

www.suite101.com/article.cfm/prisoner_advocacy/109487 - 26k -

www.november.org/abuse/

here ya go dharma
on Jan 24, 2005
I guess I have no sympathy for them, just the victims of their crimes.
on Jan 24, 2005

here ya go dharma


Thanks, I'll go check those out.


I guess I have no sympathy for them, just the victims of their crimes.


I have empathy for the perpetrators of the crimes, in that I wouldn't like to be locked up in a place like that.  But, they have to accept the punishment that comes with the conviction of the crime.  Prison is a punishment; it's not for rehabilitation or a mini break.  They're getting more in jail than a lot of law abiding people get - food, shelter, medical care and a chance to better themselves through education. 

on Jan 24, 2005

ModMan: the first 2 links are broken, and the last one deals with lynching in the 60's, Vietnamese war crimes, and Abu Ghraib.


I have searched for unbiased articles about prisoner torture and abuse in the US penetentiary system, and as yet I haven't managed to find any.  I will keep looking, and I'll let you know if I find any.

on Jan 24, 2005

I have empathy for the perpetrators of the crimes, in that I wouldn't like to be locked up in a place like that. But, they have to accept the punishment that comes with the conviction of the crime. Prison is a punishment; it's not for rehabilitation or a mini break. They're getting more in jail than a lot of law abiding people get - food, shelter, medical care and a chance to better themselves through education.


Their victims dont get that, and in some cases, they dont even get to breath.

on Jan 24, 2005
sorry about that dharma... but seek and you will find..
on Jan 24, 2005

Reply #9 By: Dr. Guy - 1/24/2005 5:11:24 PM
I guess I have no sympathy for them, just the victims of their crimes.


from personal experence I know that there are some good humans in the prison system {I go once a month to visit} plus I am going to break my own anonimity and say also once a month I go hold a group for drug and alkie abusers..My good friend that is serving time in the hell hole known as soledad isd there for ther sale of 1/4 pound of smoke... 7 years he got..and the tales he tells me make my hair stand on end.. and I am NOT easy to shock.
on Jan 24, 2005

Reply #12 By: Dr. Guy - 1/24/2005 6:11:37 PM


Their victims dont get that, and in some cases, they dont even get to breath.


now thats the truth... but we only warehouse them not rehab them... many come out worse that they were when they went in..
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