What is Torture?

Published on January 9, 2005 By Moderateman In Politics

2 entries found for torture.
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torture[1,noun]torture[2,transitive verb]

Main Entry: 1tor·ture
Pronunciation: 'tor-ch&r
Function: noun
Etymology: French, from Late Latin tortura, from Latin tortus, past participle of torquEre to twist; probably akin to Old High German drAhsil turner, Greek atraktos spindle
1 a : anguish of body or mind : AGONY b : something that causes agony or pain
2 : the infliction of intense pain (as from burning, crushing, or wounding) to punish, coerce, or afford sadistic pleasure
3 : distortion or overrefinement of a meaning or an argument : STRAINING

now please do not make me define anguish and agony cause I will........

again I say for the dense..

Making a room 95 degrees is not TORTURE.... its damn uncomfortable.

Playing loud music (90 decibels} is not Torture is just mind numbing

Making a room cold 40 degrees is not TORTURE... it is very uncomfortable.

Making someone stand in place is NOT TORTURE.

Putting a blindfold on someones head is not torture... its scarey period.

I am tired of the left twisting my words so the outcome is as they choose../

for the fainthearted I will now list some torture beware your bleeding heart might rupture.

Slamming slivers of bamboo on fire under your toenails is torture

Pulling your tongue out and cutting it off is torture.... saddam did this on a constant basis.

Cutting someone hands off in stages from the fingers upwards is torture... saddam also did this.

Gassing someone with chemical agents is torture saddam did this also

Cutting off someones ears is torture saddam also did this.

Can any of you bleeders name one instance in THIS WAR where we did anything approaching what I said is torture??

This is why I changed parties.... this is why bleeders make me nuts... they want to compare the horror of abu graves to torture.. its not torture is misguided and criminal for sure... but it does not reach what torture is..

If you look at entry 3 you {the bleeders} will see what YOU DO IS TORTUREOUS ...

Comments (Page 6)

Dr Guy

on Jan 12, 2005

Dr. Guy, that is flawd logic

No Sandy, that is the LAW! The President cannot enter into any treaty with out the advice and consent of the Senate. You are welcome to look it up, but you are wrong and I was not applying logic, just the facts.

sandy2

on Jan 12, 2005

You were applying the logic that he can't enter into the treaty without the consent of senate. Likewise, he can not go to war without the senates approval. These are rules, they are broken from time to time, yet the law only applys to what the president can do legally not what he WILL do. The fact is the President DID enter into the treaty. He DID enter the treaty. So maybe he broke the law, but its too late because he entered into the treaty.

Dr Guy

on Jan 12, 2005

No, they are not broken, unless he wants to be impeached. Breaking the constitution is an impeachable offense. You are just plain wrong. The President CANNOT enter into a treaty without the advice and consent of the senate. Why do you think the League of Nations failed? Wilson signed it, the senate did not approve it.

You are just painting yourself into an untenable position that you cannot possibly win.

Rightwinger

on Jan 12, 2005

Isn't it great how the conservatives can take a few posts and joke around a little, but the libs feel obligated to keep pounding away? My oh, my, but aren't they serious, don'tcha know?
By the way: for those of you libs who can't find your dictionaries (whoman69 take note):

According to the Webster's Concise English Dictionary----

JOKE n: Something said or done to cause laughter. A jest.

That said, I'll move on.

( by the way, 40 degree temperatures can create the onset of hypothermia, certainly uncomfortable and undoubtedly dangerous)

----Deference

Yes, and gosh, but I...I feel so sad for them!.

No good, decent person enjoys seeing anyone put through torture. I still say, however, that they'd be giving us a helluva lot worse than cold rooms and loud music.
I also doubt they'd be giving any of us proper food and drink, a place to sleep, a chance to observe our own religious rites......clothing. Gimme me a break.
Two wrongs may not make a right, but when you look at it like that, is it really two wrongs? More like one wrong and one ehh.....not so completely right.

"The healthy man does not torture others.....generally, it is the tortured man who becomes the torturer."----Carl Jung

With thousands dead on 9/11 in the name of pretty much nothing but raw hate and religious intolerance, and more and more dying every day because of al-Quaida and its ties with other terror groups, I'd call us a pretty "tortured" people.
I don't feel sorry for them....I don't. Torture may go against my religious beliefs, and though that does cause somewhat of a dilemma for me, I just can't feel sorry for them.

Moderateman

on Jan 12, 2005

Reply By: DeferencePosted: Wednesday, January 12, 2005You attempt to soften the blow of the tactics used by calling them "uncomfortable" and by removing them from the context of the situation ( by the way, 40 degree temperatures can create the onset of hypothermia, certainly uncomfortable and undoubtedly dangerous) . You also fail to mention all the tactics used that have been released via the media, cherry picking the most vanilla on the list - why? This would be unacceptable treatment for U.S. soldiers, would you not agree?

Please do not get me started on what HAS been done to us military in times of war.....you do not wanna go there

Moderateman

on Jan 12, 2005

Reply By: whoman69Posted: Wednesday, January 12, 2005Maybe you should go look at who te Geneva Conventions cover. They cover enemy troops (prisoners of war) (those that wear an established uniforms) or civilians. Those we bare fighting and detaining are not considered POWS and are therefore not covered by the accords. They aren't considered civilians either if they were found bearing arms against US forces.It may not be torture in the classic sense, but at the very least its extortion to try to use sexual humiliation to force infomation from the prisoners. If they're not pows or civilians, what are they. Using that line of reasoning, any country could torture their rebels and have no problems. The US is to be held to a higher standard because we bear that responsibility. They have to be classified somehow and any classification that we give them does not mean that we can extort them by telling them we will tell their families of the shame they went thru.

Come on ,making them play dress up or down as the case is just doesnt reach the level of torture... come on

Rightwinger

on Jan 12, 2005

Please do not get me started on what HAS been done to us military in times of war.....you do not wanna go there

This is true.....but why not go there? A little perspective might be useful. Let's see what we can find. Links, anyone?

Rightwinger

on Jan 12, 2005

An excerpt from "Pure Torture", an article in Notre Dame magazine by Tom Moe:

>"........I was eventually betrayed by a small hole in my camouflage through which I poked my radio antenna. Within seconds a zillion rifles were pointed straight at my head. Thus began a month-long, 100-mile journey to the "Hanoi Hilton" to begin my five years as a prisoner of war -- where I would get to know pain on a personal basis.

North Vietnamese policy was that POWs were war criminals, a policy that supposedly justified brutal treatment and total control. That control was reflected by a list of regulations posted in each cell. Rule number one was the catchall: "Criminals will strictly follow all regulatiIons or be severely punished."

The scenario was quite simple. An interrogator would tell you to do something, like give out military information. When, predictably, you would refuse, you were told you had violated the regulations and had to be punished. The word "punish" still evokes in me a slight feeling of nausea since it meant, at the very least, beatings that would last several days and nights. Punishment ultimately meant torture, and to torture was to extract submissiveness. I found you could be tortured for accusing them of using torture.

Torture is methodically applied pain to produce a wearing effect -- to make you submit. Usually the pain would reach a level just short of stopping vital functions, although it could continue even after one lost consciousness.

Its preliminary stages could start with something as simple as being sat on a stool, dressed in long pajamas (in summer) or just shorts (in the winter). The summer jungle air was suffocating; the damp, cold winter air was penetrating. After a while, you became a lump of huddled misery, sitting in the heat or biting cold. During a single session I sat on a stool in the same position 24 hours a day for 10 straight days.

Sometimes the guards would tie you to the stool with your wrists strapped to your ankles, but usually you were left untied and told not to move, only being allowed to get up to visit the putrid waste bucket in the corner. And the guards were always nearby. If you moved a muscle, they'd pummel you with their fists and gun butts until they tired. I don't remember sleeping during these periods -- just pain and the interminable passage of time.

After I spent days being worn down, interrogators would enter the scene, curiously almost a welcome break from "stool time." Tired and numb, many of us prisoners at first would give name, rank, and serial number -- like you see in the movies. But this is fool's play and contrary to our military training, because this open belligerency would earn some pretty tough knocks. To survive you had to get your mind going and overcome the tendency to react with your emotions. You had to fight through the haze of fatigue to recall the specialized training, and it worked. Although the interrogations and torture rarely lightened up, with the resistance techniques we were taught we were able to avoid giving any useful or classified information."

Though I will admit to some minor similarities, the conclusion would seem to be that US troops suffered much worse at the hands of their North Vietnamese captors than the al-Quaida terrorists do in theirs.

Moderateman

on Jan 12, 2005

Reply By: RightwingerPosted: Wednesday, January 12, 2005Please do not get me started on what HAS been done to us military in times of war.....you do not wanna go thereThis is true.....but why not go there? A little perspective might be useful. Let's see what we can find. Links, anyone?

I can't winger.. go there that is... it will kick up some real bad shit inside me...

Moderateman

on Jan 12, 2005

Reply #70 By: Solitair - 1/12/2005 1:28:27 PM
Actually drmiler,
it's not legally as simple as that. As you are no doubt aware, the lack of ratification on a treaty does not automatically make it non binding. The signature alone, coupled with 25 years of tacit ascent to the protocols makes a legal case for a contractural ratification. You need to remember that the US has referred to the protocols as in force in numerous instances, especially when discussing treatment of it's spies. It has used the protocols in it's yearly human right reports. At no case has it ever suggested that it did not abide by then, despire having failed to actualyl ratify them. The fact that it has tactitly acknowledged the protocols and demanded that it's special forces and spies be treated by them makes a very strong case for them to be considered in effect. Even the US supreme court has used the aspects of the protocols in legal decisions.

Paul.

but when did terroist with no uniforms and fighting for no country fall in this catagory?

Moderateman

on Jan 12, 2005

Reply By: RightwingerPosted: Wednesday, January 12, 2005An excerpt from "Pure Torture", an article in Notre Dame magazine by Tom Moe:

geeezeeeeeeee...............I gotta say how resentfull I am right now..... while the left was bizy protesting vietnam my military brothers and sisters were being tortured, FOR REAL.... why no outcry from the left then?

Moderateman

on Jan 12, 2005

Do you really want our allies to look at this country and say its not torture, just extortion and that's ok because they're not really pows?

dear whoman I have just spent 7 years in a dark cage imersed in fecal matter and urine, I am fed once a day, rotten rice and on a good day decayed fish. I am constantly being beaten. My wounds are becomming gangerous. but I cannot have any meds. because I am a war criminal according to my captors. I have seen many of my comrades give up and die... there bodies left there to rot. Rats are my companions and cockroaches the size of my fist... I was 225 pounds now I am 131 pounds. I cannot even stand straight in my cage and have to stoop or bendover. I cannot sleep because of the cries of many captives. When I do doze my dreams are filled with horrors. I wakeup screaming and see a smiling face shouting at me.

Now this is torture,

signed vietnam vets....

Now what do you say whoman69?

drmiler

on Jan 13, 2005

Actually it DOES! Go read up on the rules about the geneva accords. I went and found that particular reference about 3 months ago. You go find it this time.
.

You need to remember that the US has referred to the protocols as in force in numerous instances, especially when discussing treatment of it's spies

You need to remember that there are different sections to the accords. The one about spies is from 79 (signed AND ratified). The one you and I are discussing are from 77 (signed but NOT ratified). Different set.

drmiler

on Jan 13, 2005

Reply By: ModeratemanPosted: Wednesday, January 12, 2005Do you really want our allies to look at this country and say its not torture, just extortion and that's ok because they're not really pows?dear whoman I have just spent 7 years in a dark cage imersed in fecal matter and urine, I am fed once a day, rotten rice and on a good day decayed fish. I am constantly being beaten. My wounds are becomming gangerous. but I cannot have any meds. because I am a war criminal according to my captors. I have seen many of my comrades give up and die... there bodies left there to rot. Rats are my companions and cockroaches the size of my fist... I was 225 pounds now I am 131 pounds. I cannot even stand straight in my cage and have to stoop or bendover. I cannot sleep because of the cries of many captives. When I do doze my dreams are filled with horrors. I wakeup screaming and see a smiling face shouting at me.Now this is torture,signed vietnam vets....Now what do you say whoman69?

He ain't gonna say spit.

Solitair

on Jan 13, 2005

Drmiler,
you are confusing legally binding within the US with legally binding in international courts nad laws. While the US may decide that it's presidents signature and 25 years of support may not constitute acceptance the rest of the world will not. Once treaties reach the required quorate then they become international treaties and are in force worldwide. Yes individual countries can ignore treaties on their own soil, but trying to wiggle out of international accepted behaviour on the excuse that the US did not actally ratify all the required treaties will not work with world opinion.

The bottom line is that there are international treaties giving the accepted norm for dealing with terrorists (which the US signed) and the US is flouting such treaties.

Paul.

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