We can be a secular nation, or not.  It really is not the point.  WHat is the point is that the government should be secular.  And sadly it is fast becoming non-secular.  But the religion that is being espoused is not about Judeo-Christian ethics, or even Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu ones.  It is a religion of anti-religion.  Its god is the abolition of anything approaching devine belief or basic human compassion.  In praise of the almighty state.

I laugh everytime I see [gag] in your wirting!!


I like it that God might just fight back! Good article!

Reply By: Dr GuyPosted: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 We can be a secular nation, or not. It really is not the point. WHat is the point is that the government should be secular. And sadly it is fast becoming non-secular. But the religion that is being espoused is not about Judeo-Christian ethics, or even Muslim, Buddhist or Hindu ones. It is a religion of anti-religion. Its god is the abolition of anything approaching devine belief or basic human compassion. In praise of the almighty state.

While I think that religious leaders are a good thing, their religion SHOULD NOT come into play when making decisions. IMO.

Reply By: foreverserenityPosted: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 I laugh everytime I see [gag] in your wirting!! I like it that God might just fight back! Good article!

I am glad to male you laugh donna, but the truth is there is nothing 'PROGRESSIVE" in secular progression{ga

If I can for a moment do Gods work I am truly blessed.

I'm blessed just reading you MM. Keep up the good work.

Reply By: KFC Kickin For ChristPosted: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 If I can for a moment do Gods work I am truly blessed. I'm blessed just reading you MM. Keep up the good work.

Thank you KFC, I try to read you and lula, but you guys write so far above my head in knowledge of the bible, I just get lost.

Dr. Guy Posts:


It's the latest form of American atheism to me.

I think we are enterng into a new and more intensified phase of the Culture War. The C-War's been going on for 30-40 years and the 2 sides have been battling abortion, homosexuality, contraceptive sex ed, pornography, prayer in school, legalizaton of illegal drugs, teaching Darwinian theory as fact, etc.

MM, wouldn't you think that if those polls you quote are correct, that things in the C-War would be going better than they are?

i'm confused.

you lament this:



while proclaiming this:

this is almost to easy kingbee, to declare your passion for GOD while in politics is very suspect and makes the farleft loons come out in droves, declaring "he or she lets their religion make decisions"




Again, to easy, no time should a politician that represents many people of many religions let his or her religion dictate policy while making laws that affect people not of their particular religion, example: for a Jewish politician to try to get a law in outlawing pork because it is against his or her religion.

it is what it is, because we that are religious do not {for the most part anyways} DEMAND THAT we wnat things done our way, while the far left has many voices, in the entire media to back their agenda, we do not.

Yes. According to them if you are a believer in God you have no right to politics because your religious beliefs may determine how you act on a certain issue. Well isn't that as true for the Atheists or the Agnostics?

Did you read about the recent sudden removal of General Peter Pace as chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff? The Marine general created controversy in March when he likened homosexuality to adultery, and said the military should not condone it by allowing homosexuals to serve in the military.

General Pace made statements that were opposed by the homosexual activist community, and rather than fight they decided to just replace him. The path to lest resistance...Pace has been replaced by Admiral Mike Mullen, the Chief of Naval Operations.

This is the name of the game. Compromise. We're in trouble when we do this.

I'm reading all about Ezra, Zerubbabel & Nehemiah in the Hebrew Scriptures right now. The setting is about the Jews coming out of Babylonian Captivity in 538 BC

During this time they set out to build the new temple. The enemies of Israel wanted to help in the building of it. Their wish was to make it a house of worship for all...eccumentical if you will ....Zerubbabel, the builder and Joshua, the High Priest refused to compromise God's laws and worship with these other nations with their pagan beliefs.

Because they were refused, these same adversaries who tried to come across as wanting to be friendly, now went to the Persian officials to have them stopped. They wrote lies about them and managed to get the building project stopped for like 16 years. The foundation just sat there until Haggai the prophet got word from God to the Jews to continue. Again the enemies sought to stop it by going to the new King of Persia Darius, but to no avail. The decree by Cyrus was found by Darius in their well kept records and the rest is history as they say. They refused to compromise and it cost something for a while but in the end the heavens opened up with blessings for them. The temple was finished in 516 BC.

Many years later Nehemiah came on the scene to build the walls around Jerusualem and ran into the same opposition. Only this time their lives were in danger. He also would not compromise and set about to do God's work no matter the death threats leveled at him and the people.

God blesses us in our time of adversity when we refuse to compromise with the world all just to appease or because we wish to take the path to lest resistence.

MM, what, or better yet, whose standard should we/do we use for making laws?

America's founding is rooted in the order of Creation itself. It's founding documents are an outworking of the Biblical principle of human equality derived from the fact that men and women are made in God's Image. The doctrine of human equality has the premise that certain rights are self-evident and unalienable, (they can't be abridged or taken away becasue they come from God, the First Authority). They are the right to life, liberty, and property. These are the political doctrines which guided the Founding Fathers and they are also theological foundations of our physical and moral laws which bind all of creation.

I do not want to put words in your mouth, however, here you seem to be saying that our legislatures must somehow leave their religious beliefs outside the door of their legislatures chambers. Some call this "religious neutrality"...which in effect is impossible and logically indefensible.

Take a landmark case of Everson v. Board of Educ. in 1947. Everson was the first case to list atheism with Christianity as equivalent religious beliefs toward which government must be neutral. This unprecedented judicial and legislative conception of 'religious neutrality' has in turn resulted in subsequent civil laws and judicial decisions that every Christian recognizes as contrary to GOd's law of divine justice.

See, we can't start with the premise that individuals have inherent equalities, but deny that they are limited by duties and moral restraints imposed by GOd. Without the moral boundaries imposed by Scripture, 'equality' was quickly recognized as an arbitrary premise without the moral authority to deter the powerful from redefining utilitarianism to serve their own ends. Marx went this way and the result was totalitarianism.

In order to hold that Christianity and atheism are equal for the purposes of achieving religious neutrality, one must assume the government can define and enforce equality on some basis other than provided in a Biblical context. This unfortunaately is being done day in and day out. The result has been the institutionalion of moral relativism which if not reversed, at least IMHO, can only result in serious social chaos. Individual equality has been interpretated to mean equality of any beliefs which individuals might hold.

I think the burden relies on us, the voters. Are we wise or foolish, good or bad. Shall we put wise or foolish, good or bad men to govern us. Shall we have righteous laws, a faithful administration of government and permanent good order, peace and liberty or on the contrary feel unsupportable burdens and see the affairs of government in confusion and ruin?

You say we are not a secular nation--yet....I would disagree for the very reasons I just cited. This is me, a Catholic...I would never vote for a irreligious and immoral person. For how can I expect good just laws to be made from men who have no fear of GOd before their eyes and who boldly trample on the authority of His commands?

Yes, I think this is a good part of it. For a myriad of reasons, too busy working, paying the bills caring for our families, etc... Take this giving what amounts to amnesty to the illegal aliens. That went down the first time because the grass roots called, wrote, and emailed their congressman. It's coming back and if we don't keep our voices LOUD and CLEAR, it's gonna pass they say over the 4th of July holiday when people are vacationing!!

In my state they had a vote yesterday and two referundums on bonds passed 2-to-one. The bills just keep piling up and the burden becomes heavier and heavier.

Ah, but which one (and isn't that the point of the separation of Church and State)??

Did you know that there's a bill in the Senate right now to limit Pastors teaching against Homosexuality. It's called the Hate Crimes Bill. In the House it passed and was called HR1592. So the bill was introduced, debated and passed...now onto the Senate.

If it passes the Senate S 1105 it will go against the law for preachers to preach the bible in certain parts. I'm sure Bush will veto it but my "prophetic guts" tell me that it will be reintroduced soon, maybe under a new Leftist President and it will pass.

Now what does this mean? Separation of Church and State ONLY works one way?

also....even the demons believe in God and tremble. Even if 90% believe in God (which seems kinda of high to me), only a very small fraction of that number follow him.