Baker, Schofield is the new home of a Stryker brigade. I'm more familiar with it than I'd like to be.

I admire and have always admired Mohammed Ali for the very reason you state in your article.  However, while I will not spit on Lt Watada, I will not salute him or honor him.  He JOINED, so he is not conscientious.  He KNEW what was happening, and then decided to bail.  I will accept the fact that he is not running, and that is why I will not despise him.  But I will not honor or salute him.

I edited the body of this and withdrew my salute. I really was saluting him not running away. Facing the consequences
of his actions is what I admire, NOT ANYTHING ELSE!

If you were relying on the guy next to you to shoot people he can't bring himself to shoot, you might feel differently.

And instead he's just not going to be there...

"If you were relying on the guy next to you to shoot people" but he can't bring himself to even show up...?

My take on it is also that he wanted to get through college, get his commision, and dodge actually going over to Iraq. Yes, he can refuse to obey unlawful orders. It has yet to be shown that this is unlawful (and many have tried). Soldiers don't get to pick their wars.

He's NOT a conscientious objector. The linked article stated that he wasn't against war in general, just *this* one. Well, gosh. I believe TW mentioned the word "convenient" somewhere above...

Another man they mentioned in the article, SGT Benderman, had a different experience. I find it slightly odd that they would parallel the two, since SGT Benderman actually applied for CO status and was turned down. Only then did he "miss movement."

Yes, I think it's a bit adult of these men to actually face up to their punishment. However, I think it would show a larger pair for them to actually do what they had SWORN to do. Give him some credit, fine, but it's more the system actually working than him doing anything noble.

You do realize he's an OFFICER, right? He's not going to be shooting anyone. He's going to be sitting in a swivel chair in an air conditioned room

HAHAHAHAHA

Is that how the officers lead in the Army?

I edited the body of this and withdrew my salute.

I think that's a poor idea. I think it obscures the whole issue that you were trying to put out there. If you felt you had to clarify, I feel an addendum perhaps with an "edited:" tag would have been more appropriate.

However, if you're going to edit your original stance, I'll just beg out of the conversation. Thanks.

Oh, I agree with Tex...with an added thought.

He should not only do jail time, but have to pay back every dime in education and training he accepted while serving..with interest.

He joined three short years ago...He KNEW what he was getting into...you might change your mind about the kind of ice cream you like, or the kind of person, but you don't give your word an oath before God...then when called to fullfill it suddenly get a case of the "I don't think its right."

They should put him in a military jail in Iraq!

I edited the body of this and withdrew my salute. I really was saluting him not running away. Facing the consequences of his actions is what I admire, NOT ANYTHING ELSE!

In that, we again agree 100%.

Reply By: pseudosoldierPosted: Friday, June 16, 2006

He's NOT a conscientious objector. The linked article stated that he wasn't against war in general, just *this* one. Well, gosh. I believe TW mentioned the word "convenient" somewhere above...

correct and on that note...... he will have his life as he knows it totally destroyed, He cannot even own property with a dishonerable and he will get more than a few years in prison, all richly deserved.

Reply By: pseudosoldierPosted: Friday, June 16, 2006I edited the body of this and withdrew my salute.I think that's a poor idea. I think it obscures the whole issue that you were trying to put out there. If you felt you had to clarify, I feel an addendum perhaps with an "edited:" tag would have been more appropriate.However, if you're going to edit your original stance, I'll just beg out of the conversation. Thanks.

I hear and obey.

I don't know the guy, but I feel like he's a scammer plain and simple. He wanted Uncle Sam to foot the bill for his education and now wants to beg out of his obligations.

As for courage, maybe he's too chicken to even run away? Either way, he gets no respect from me.

For the record, I have been in foxholes, gone on patrols, 12 mile road marches and sat with LTs because we were among the last 3 to head for the bunker.

Artillery Officers are like any other combat arms officers, they rotate through leadership and staff positions. If he is assigned to a gun battery he will be sitting in a Fire Direction Control Vehicle directing the Fire Direction Control team.

If he is a staff officer, he will do what any other staff officer does. Spend 6 hours preparing information for a 5 minute commander's briefing. on his area of responsibility on the staff.


Either way, yes, he is letting everyone in his unit down. He willingly accepted the training, experience, pay and benefits that made him a U.S. Army Artillery Officer. The Officers, NCOs and Enlisted Gun Bunnies who have trained with him have done so with him as part of the team... he is now breaking up that team for selfish reasons.

There is a difference between respecting the man and respecting an action. I don't respect what he is doing in the least, nothing about the U.S. Constitution or UCMJ gives him any ammunition towards his cause.

Yes, he is a coward and if he doesn't repay the taxpayers for what he has cost them, he is a thief...

He is also willing to stand and take whatever punishment is given him for his decision. A quality rare in most people these days.

"Yes, he is a coward and if he doesn't repay the taxpayers for what he has cost them, he is a thief..."

He's offered to go anywhere else, just not Iraq. If he was intended for the 'swivel chair' they'd get their money back out of him in a thousand other places, and save giving the Sheehan crowd a martyr. Better, if he is a jerk that is just wanting out altogether, they could force him to put his money where his mouth is and send him spelunking in Afghanistan with a Ruger MkII and a silencer.

As it stands we'll never really know, and the worst sort of people get a poster boy.

As it stands we'll never really know, and the worst sort of people get a poster boy.

True, they could make an example of him. I happen to know a few choice places for a young LT. The pentagon (where Majors are treated like Privates) comes to mind. Johnson Island (a spit of dust in the middle of the Pacific)... Station Crystal (if it's still active), a research station a few hundred miles "inland" in Antarctica might work to.

If they don't escort him by MP to his duty station in Iraq, I'm pretty much with you here, send him somewhere that even the troops in Iraq would call hell.

While I don't care for his doing this. I can't really point fingers. I've backed out of things I've promised to do. So, for me, it is the pot calling the kettle black.

~L