CHRIST KILLER!

Once more, with Feeling

Published on May 22, 2006 By Moderateman In Religion

I grew up with Sicilians, I was the only non-Italian there in our little gang of around 300 kids.

There was a time when the Italians had there own turf. may generations grew up there. Between 112th street to 125th street, from the east river to Pleasant ave, to 1st ave, to 2nd ave, to 3rd ave, A solid wall of Italians.

I was very small for my age, at 13 I was 4ft 10 inches tall and weighed in at around 90 pounds.

I had eaten in their homes, they has eaten in mine, all the families looked out for the children of any other family,

We were surrounded on one side by blacks on the other by puerto ricans, Full blown wars were not unusual. Everyone watched everyone Else's backs, this was life as I knew it.

Then the day after my 13th Birthday and My bar mitzvah, I was over at Sals house talking, Sal lived with his mother and father 5 siblings, and not one but two grandmothers.

I got along well with Mrs. Dispenza, Sals maternal grandmother, I was always treated like family when I was there.

Mrs Dispenza loved to see kids eat, I can still hear her voice "manja, manja" On this day I was wearing my mezuzah, a gift from my father on my Bar Mitzvah day, the day before.

Mrs Dispenza saw it hanging on my neck and asked in her very faltering English, What is that you are wearing< I told her what it was, she said "you Jew?" I said yes of course, Suddenly my world fell apart, Her face changed and she spit right in my face, calling me Christ Killer She told me "get out! get outta my house" Never come back, as I left running from the room I heard her once again, Christ killer" dizgratziada {sp?}

This was my very first experience with racism, bigotry, what ever you want to call it. I was crushed I ran home crying, My sister Rose was there She was alarmed when she saw the condition I was in, and asked me what happened?

I told her the whole sordid story, I added "saying I never killed anyone" Why did she do that? MY sister explained as well as she could, I did not understand any of it. That day my world changed, The Italian Kids I grew up with could no longer play with me.

I was alone, alone in a war zone. This was the first of many times I had problems for no other reason than I am a Jew."

Comments (Page 3)

Moderateman

on May 30, 2006

28 by KFC (Kickin For Christ)
Fri, May 26, 2006 10:01 PM

you really believe this don't you? I think you do not have a clue what you would do with your life on the line.

I believe, my conscience, as I said would accept nothing less. Of course we never know unless we are in the heat of battle exactly what we would do. But I answered honestly. I'm sorry you don't accept my answer.

oh I accept your answer, I would never call you a liar, and I believe that YOU BELIEVE THIS, IT'S JUST I cannopt fathom it. Your answer is beyong my undetstanding, ok?

Moderateman

on May 30, 2006

#29 by KFC (Kickin For Christ)
Fri, May 26, 2006 10:13 PM

What's really interesting is the fact that the OT punishment for such a crime was stoning. But hundreds of years before his death we see OT propecy showing clearly his death was to be a crucifixion which wasn't done until later Roman times.

NOW this is intresting, where in the bible is it? I want to read more on this.

Moderateman

on May 30, 2006

30 by foreverserenity
Tue, May 30, 2006 10:52 AM

Oh Elie, I felt the pain and confusion for the child you were. That must have been so devastating for you. That's a horrible, horrible thing to have happened.

I think now in retrospect what blew me away was how fast this loving lady turned on me.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on May 30, 2006

IT'S JUST I cannopt fathom it. Your answer is beyong my undetstanding, ok?

I understand. It's called having the mind of Christ. Maybe you've heard this... "I am crucified with Christ, nevertheless I live, yet not I but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God who loved me and gave himself for me." or maybe...."For who has known the mind of the Lord
that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ."

NOW this is intresting, where in the bible is it? I want to read more on this.

Ps 22 is called the Psalm of the Cross and is written by King David about 1000 years before Christ. Look especially at v 14-16. This prophetic psalm describes crucifixion, a means of execution not known until Roman times, the pain the extreme thirst, asphyxiation,, and agony to the hands and feet. Normally stoning was the method used by Jews to kill a criminal not crucifixion.

Isa 53 is also one of interest. Lots of good stuff in there.

I think now in retrospect what blew me away was how fast this loving lady turned on me.

To me I see (from what you wrote) that her love was not deep but only surface related.

Real love is defined by scripture like this...."Love suffers long, and is kind, love envies not, is not puffed up, does not behave itself unseemly, seeks not her own, is not easily provoked, thinks no evil......"

Doesn't sound like she went too deep MM and you exposed it by just being who you were.

-----

on May 30, 2006

I grew up with Sicilians, I was the only non-Italian there in our little gang of around 300 kids

If I might ask, what do you look like? (You don't have to if you want, I just picture you one way and would like to see if I am close)

--

I really was never interested of who Murdered Christ as much as why he was murdered

There is a theory revolving around the so called, "Spear of Destiney." If you're interested.

That is part of the reason why I do not believe in "organized" religion. Whatever the "label" is that applies to me and my...faith, it means nothing to me. If someone wants to call me a...pagan, or hell, they can call me lucifer. (Since my name is supposed to be related to Lucius/Lucifer.

)

I realize that some christians (my mother is an example) care too much, and that they so strongly believe the way they do.

That isn't to say that it doesn't get annoying at times. (Why do Jehovah Witnesses come to mind...

--Oh, My "father" was supposadly one...)

Anyway...

~L

Chakgogka

on May 30, 2006

It seems natural that we have a liking for some persons, things and situations; it seems natural that we have an aversion for some persons, things and situations. But the truth is 'like' and 'dislike' cause mental suffering for ourselves and others. So, here's a question: you are one day in a place with someone you love, someone you feel neutral about and someone you hate. The four of you are captured by bandits who need a victim for human sacrifice. Of the four of you, who would you choose?...

I would choose the one I hate

myself. There is no greater love than one willing to die for another.

Interesting answers. Choosing the one you hate is the answer that I suspect most people would give as it seems to make most sense - not only is the dilemma solved, but you get rid of someone you despise - kind of like killing two birds with one stone.

Choosing oneself is also interesting. It is true that there is no greater love than laying down your life for another. However, we also see in this day and age a remarkable willingness of people to lay down their lives, often taking as many others with them as their strap-on explosives can reach. This should tell us that laying down our own lives is not always a great good, and the motives can be as diabolical and selfish as they can be noble.

There is no correct answer to this problem. I think the point of this exercise is to ask us to question the very idea of prioritising in this way. Our minds create a scale of like/dislike from love to neutral feelings to hate, and we place ourselves somewhere along that line: mod puts himself firmly on the love side (smart move

) and KFC on the other side (in certain circumstances). Perhaps the problem is in the very idea that we should make these distinctions at all...

KFC Kickin For Christ

on May 30, 2006

Yes, choosing the one you hate is the easiest way out I think. And you're right, on the surface it seems to solve the problem. So what happens when we both point at each other when the bad guy comes to get one of us?

Have you ever heard the story during WWII when the Nazis would use one to turn on a brother or friend and then execute the one who just executed his own? I guess I'd rather go out taking the high road than the low one.

Those that take another life or lives on the way out are not showing love but only hate and vengeance. That's not what I'm talking about Chak, and I know you are smart enough to know that. They will get their reward on the other side. It won't be what they are expecting.

Chakgogka

on May 30, 2006

on the surface it seems to solve the problem.

Yes, but as you rightly imply, the problem isn't really solved.

Those that take another life or lives on the way out are not showing love but only hate and vengeance.

Yes, they are certainly showing hate and vengeance, but they believe that they are also acting out of love - for their God, their cause, their 'nation' etc.

That's not what I'm talking about Chak

Yes, of course - that's clear. I don't think that I implied an equivalence between your willingness to be the human sacrifice for the bandits, and the 'martyrdom' of a jihadist, simply that "willingness to lay down one's life" = "good thing" is not always true. Less dramatically, there is such a thing as 'spiritual materialism' in which it is possible to 'itch' for martyrdom, in the same way that others crave the latest model of sports car. When I read some of the Church Fathers talking about dying for their faith, I sometimes seem to sense a kind of 'greed' for suffering. Motivation and intention are the important things, rather than how brave or noble the act looks to onlookers.

KFC Kickin For Christ

on May 30, 2006

Motivation and intention are the important things, rather than how brave or noble the act looks to onlookers

yes, agree. It's all about the internal not the externals.

Being a marty is not my idea of fun nor would I ever seek it to prove a point. I'm too much of a wimp for that. Most of us will never ever be called to die for our faith. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't be ready if the time ever did come.

To me nothing's worth living for that is not worth dying for.

Moderateman

on May 31, 2006

#37 by KFC (Kickin For Christ)
Tue, May 30, 2006 9:26 PM

#38 by Chakgogka
Tue, May 30, 2006 9:52 PM

#36 by Chakgogka
Tue, May 30, 2006 8:14 PM

I so enjoyed the interchange between the two of you. It's nice to just sit here and read other thoughts, while I am doing that I am also being educated.

Thank you both!

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